Pattani Naga Keris

[Greybeard]

Hello all,

Pattanese naga keris usually appear to be crudely and cheaply made, and they are of obvious recent manufacture. Are those Pattani naga keris newer creations in order to satisfy a tourist market? Do old good quality Pattanese naga pieces exist as well? If so, what are the characteristics?

Regards,

Heinz

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

.. Pattanese naga keris usually appear to be crudely and cheaply made, and they are of obvious recent manufacture. Are those Pattani naga keris newer creations in order to satisfy a tourist market? Do old good quality Pattanese naga pieces exist as well? If so, what are the characteristics?.. Heinz

Yes, it does exist. However, the quantity is not many. It is lightweight and sports a straight blade.. the naga head sports a specific form, different from the other various naga forms..

[Greybeard]

Hello Alam Shah

Thank you for your reply. I think I have seen the naga keris form you refer to in another keris discussion forum ("hanggoye"). Unfortunately, I cannot follow that discussion for language reason, but I have quite wondered about the straight blade since I thought that naga keris always have curved blades ...

The reason I ask about Pattanese naga keris is that I have been offered an old (or at least old looking) "Naga Timbul" 13 luk keris which is -- in my opinion -- quite similar in appearance and condition to the straight naga keris shown in the other forum (except for the luk, of course).

Best regards,

Heinz

[BluErf]

I had the good fortune of seeing a number of serious keris collections in Kelantan/Terengganu, and I have not seen any Pattani naga kerises in those collections. We are talking about the best of the best N. Malayan keris collections. However, I did see quite a few kerises with Singa, and some allegedly Hanuman kerises. The collectors distinguish Hanuman from the Singa through the posture and body shape. And of course, the unduk-unduk (river horses) keris.

If they exist, old Pattani Naga kerises would be quite rare indeed.

[Greybeard]

Hello BluErf

Seems that in this case all those crude Pattanese naga keris we sometimes see in this forum or offered on ebay are new creations without traditional "forerunners" ...

Regards,

Heinz

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by BluErf

.. If they exist, old Pattani Naga kerises would be quite rare indeed.

Indeed, they are.. the thing about these kerises is that, it's existence is not documented. Difficult to benchmark. Even serious collectors up north, may not know or unwilling to collect them (hefty price). It could probably be found upper north in Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat provinces.

There are a few who have these.. the naga form is identical in all the examples. However, I do not have their permission to post here, sorry.

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Hello Alam Shah

Thank you for your reply. I think I have seen the naga keris form you refer to in another keris discussion forum ("hanggoye"). Unfortunately, I cannot follow that discussion for language reason, but I have quite wondered about the straight blade since I thought that naga keris always have curved blades ...

The reason I ask about Pattanese naga keris is that I have been offered an old (or at least old looking) "Naga Timbul" 13 luk keris which is -- in my opinion -- quite similar in appearance and condition to the straight naga keris shown in the other forum (except for the luk, of course).

Best regards,

Heinz

Though not an absolute rule, N. Malayan kerises generally stop at 9 waves. So be careful about 13 waved N. Malayan kerises.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

.. The reason I ask about Pattanese naga keris is that I have been offered an old (or at least old looking) "Naga Timbul" 13 luk keris which is -- in my opinion -- quite similar in appearance and condition to the straight naga keris shown in the other forum (except for the luk, of course).

Like Blu Erf suggests, caveat emptor.. perhaps a picture of the blade might assist in identifying the form..

[Greybeard]

Alam Shah, BluErf

I really appreciate your valuable information! I know next to nothing about Malay keris, because I normally limit my keris collecting to Javanese pieces.

It`s new to me (and important to know) that Northern Malay keris usually don`t have luk higher than nine. It`s really a pity that I cannot provide pictures. The keris in question is overall very Javanese in appearance, with a very wavy (rengkol) 13-luk blade. Even the hilt/scabbard are in Javanese Surakarta style ...

The feature that let me think of a Pattanese keris consists of the naga`s head which is simply executed, without much detail, but not really crude. The beard underneath the naga`s head forms a perfect round hole in the gandik. The pictures of a very similar naga`s head were posted by Mans on March 2, 2005 (thread "Is this a Javanese blade?" by BluErf).

And finally: What does "Naga Timbul" (seller`s designation) mean? A Google search lead me to some quite ugly tourist type "naga keris", offered on ebay, which indeed sport the same naga`s head as mine, but these are a whole lot cruder ...

Well, I could not resist. I like this keris, and in the meantime I purchased it. I just hope I bought a good one ...

Many thanks again for your help and best regards from (at the present) hot Switzerland,

Heinz

[David]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

The keris in question is overall very Javanese in appearance, with a very wavy (rengkol) 13-luk blade. Even the hilt/scabbard are in Javanese Surakarta style ...

Well Heinz, it sounds to me like you may have bought yourself a Javanese keris after all.
Here is the link to the thread BluErf posted back in 2005. Links are always helpful.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...javanese+blade