Barong restauration advice needed

Sajen · 11th August 2014, 02:38 AM

Just purchased this barong with a very slender and long blade: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Larg...c#ht_78wt_1153 I just can't resist by this price!

The scabbard seems not or only with great effort restorable, I will keep it but not display it with the sword.
The handle seems to need pushed down again and is maybe loose, this could be the reason for the wire binding. And here we come to my question: Would you remove this binding? To my eyes it look rather recent to my eyes.

I have seen this way of binding before but most of the time more fine and worked from silver wire which I certainly never would remove. Or is this sort of binding for a better grip? And I am correct that I would place this barong for the time frame from 1920-1930? Origin?

Thank you for all comments in advance,
Detlef

Shakethetrees · 11th August 2014, 05:38 AM

I would make sure the wooden grip was not grooved to better hold the wire. I've seen this on other pieces, where a repair late during the working life was done without regard to the object.

I think once the wire comes off, the grip will split, or will want to split.

I would remove it carefully, once it's been determined the wood was not grooved for repair. Clean any glue residue carefully and with as much precision that you have available, internally pin the two halves together and glue. Custom cut and fit as many glue blocks as you thing you may need to clamp the pieces together securely and precisely. If there are more than two pieces, you will want to go in stages, taking care not to stick things together and later find that an undercut prevents later fitting! (I learned this the hard way!).

Finish however you think it should look. I do not want to comment on this because I would need to be familiar with it in person. There are many ways to go here.

Once the finish is as close to perfect as it can be, remount using shellac resin or pitch, whichever way,it was originally mounted. DO NOT USE GLUE, or other permanent fixes. In a good, sensitive restoration, you always want to be able to back out! This is imperative.

The scabbard looks like it could be tackled with some care and a lot of study.

Remember: go slowly, and do not do anything that cannot be undone.

Now back to the earlier situation. If the grip has been grooved for the wire during a period repair, remove it, repair the grip as outlined above. Once that's done to your satisfaction, you might consider either silver plated copper, naked copper or silver wire, depending on what you think the piece merits. There is no way to undo any grooves cut in, so you're stuck with a lesser of evils approach.

Make sure the wire used whatever it is is annealed dead soft. It will cooperate a lot better.

Sajen · 11th August 2014, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

I would make sure the wooden grip was not grooved to better hold the wire. I've seen this on other pieces, where a repair late during the working life was done without regard to the object.

I think once the wire comes off, the grip will split, or will want to split.

I would remove it carefully, once it's been determined the wood was not grooved for repair. Clean any glue residue carefully and with as much precision that you have available, internally pin the two halves together and glue. Custom cut and fit as many glue blocks as you thing you may need to clamp the pieces together securely and precisely. If there are more than two pieces, you will want to go in stages, taking care not to stick things together and later find that an undercut prevents later fitting! (I learned this the hard way!).

Finish however you think it should look. I do not want to comment on this because I would need to be familiar with it in person. There are many ways to go here.

Once the finish is as close to perfect as it can be, remount using shellac resin or pitch, whichever way,it was originally mounted. DO NOT USE GLUE, or other permanent fixes. In a good, sensitive restoration, you always want to be able to back out! This is imperative.

The scabbard looks like it could be tackled with some care and a lot of study.

Remember: go slowly, and do not do anything that cannot be undone.

Now back to the earlier situation. If the grip has been grooved for the wire during a period repair, remove it, repair the grip as outlined above. Once that's done to your satisfaction, you might consider either silver plated copper, naked copper or silver wire, depending on what you think the piece merits. There is no way to undo any grooves cut in, so you're stuck with a lesser of evils approach.

Make sure the wire used whatever it is is annealed dead soft. It will cooperate a lot better.

Hello Shakethetrees,

thank you very much for your elaborate comment. Be sure that I will handle all very carefully. Frankly said I can't see any evidence that the handle is splitted or that there are carved grooves to keep the wire in place. But the pictures are not very clear and the wish let me maybe see it like this!

When I will have the sword in my hands I will post better pictures but this will need some time because the seller used this weird "global shipping program" and the barong will be shipped to my family in the States.

Regards,
Detlef

Robert · 11th August 2014, 06:05 AM

I just looked at what this was stolen for,

I mean was paid for this barong and WOW what luck.

As far as age I would agree that it is second quarter of the 20th century, but I'm not knowledgable enough to be more exact in pinning down the dateing. Because the auction photos do not show it all that clearly (at least to me) I would wait until it has arrived and you have had time to inspect it more thoroughly before making any decision on whether or not the wire wrapping should be removed. Who knows, maybe with a little straightening out the wire wrapping will look just fine, and you must also keep in mind that the wire is part of this barongs history much like the paint job on the bolo I have posted. Not my cup of tea but history just the same. Congratulation for having been given, I mean winning this nice barong.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 11th August 2014, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

I just looked at what this was stolen for,

I mean was paid for this barong and WOW what luck.

As far as age I would agree that it is second quarter of the 20th century, but I'm not knowledgable enough to be more exact in pinning down the dateing. Because the auction photos do not show it all that clearly (at least to me) I would wait until it has arrived and you have had time to inspect it more thoroughly before making any decision on whether or not the wire wrapping should be removed. Who knows, maybe with a little straightening out the wire wrapping will look just fine, and you must also keep in mind that the wire is part of this barongs history much like the paint job on the bolo I have posted. Not my cup of tea but history just the same. Congratulation for having been given, I mean winning this nice barong.

Best,
Robert

Thank you Robert,

yes it was a bargain also when it is in this pitiable condition.

And I agree with you that I need to inspect it more thoroughly to decise what is to do with it. In this thread were shown barongs with this sort of wrapping at the hilt: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=barong The barongs in this thread has a much better looking hilt wrapping in silver.

Best regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 11th August 2014, 03:22 PM

Any ideas of origin and age from our Moro experts?

Sajen · 26th August 2014, 01:15 PM

Here some pictures I have received from the States.
The blade seems to be laminated and the hilt seems to be reattached by some sort of natural (?) glue. Positive is that the blade have only minimal corrosion.

Sajen · 2nd November 2014, 04:56 PM

Have received the barong as well. The wire binding was broken in down so I decided to remove it. The handle has had wiggled on the blade and was like seen on the previous pictures not enough down to the tang so I removed the handle, it was attached with some sort of resin or glue and steel wool and I think that a previous owner has tried to attach the lose handle in this way and has destroyed the wire binding by this when it was not already broken before. So I have dismantled all parts and cleaned, polished and etched the blade which show now a fine lamination near the edge. The ferrule rings from white metal I've glued with two-component adhesive in place since they don't hold byself maybe because the wood is shrunken by time. I have also given it a new handle wrap with natural twine, I still need to paint the twine black and to reattach the handle to the blade.
Here some pictures of the state from my restore work.

11th August 2014, 02:38 AM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Barong restauration advice needed Just purchased this barong with a very slender and long blade: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Larg...c#ht_78wt_1153 I just can't resist by this price! The scabbard seems not or only with great effort restorable, I will keep it but not display it with the sword. The handle seems to need pushed down again and is maybe loose, this could be the reason for the wire binding. And here we come to my question: Would you remove this binding? To my eyes it look rather recent to my eyes. I have seen this way of binding before but most of the time more fine and worked from silver wire which I certainly never would remove. Or is this sort of binding for a better grip? And I am correct that I would place this barong for the time frame from 1920-1930? Origin? Thank you for all comments in advance, Detlef Attached Images

11th August 2014, 06:05 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I just looked at what this was stolen for, I mean was paid for this barong and WOW what luck. As far as age I would agree that it is second quarter of the 20th century, but I'm not knowledgable enough to be more exact in pinning down the dateing. Because the auction photos do not show it all that clearly (at least to me) I would wait until it has arrived and you have had time to inspect it more thoroughly before making any decision on whether or not the wire wrapping should be removed. Who knows, maybe with a little straightening out the wire wrapping will look just fine, and you must also keep in mind that the wire is part of this barongs history much like the paint job on the bolo I have posted. Not my cup of tea but history just the same. Congratulation for having been given, I mean winning this nice barong. Best, Robert Last edited by Robert; 11th August 2014 at 07:47 AM.

26th August 2014, 01:15 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Here some pictures I have received from the States. The blade seems to be laminated and the hilt seems to be reattached by some sort of natural (?) glue. Positive is that the blade have only minimal corrosion. Attached Images

2nd November 2014, 04:56 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Have received the barong as well. The wire binding was broken in down so I decided to remove it. The handle has had wiggled on the blade and was like seen on the previous pictures not enough down to the tang so I removed the handle, it was attached with some sort of resin or glue and steel wool and I think that a previous owner has tried to attach the lose handle in this way and has destroyed the wire binding by this when it was not already broken before. So I have dismantled all parts and cleaned, polished and etched the blade which show now a fine lamination near the edge. The ferrule rings from white metal I've glued with two-component adhesive in place since they don't hold byself maybe because the wood is shrunken by time. I have also given it a new handle wrap with natural twine, I still need to paint the twine black and to reattach the handle to the blade. Here some pictures of the state from my restore work. Attached Images

11th August 2014, 05:38 AM	#2
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	I would make sure the wooden grip was not grooved to better hold the wire. I've seen this on other pieces, where a repair late during the working life was done without regard to the object. I think once the wire comes off, the grip will split, or will want to split. I would remove it carefully, once it's been determined the wood was not grooved for repair. Clean any glue residue carefully and with as much precision that you have available, internally pin the two halves together and glue. Custom cut and fit as many glue blocks as you thing you may need to clamp the pieces together securely and precisely. If there are more than two pieces, you will want to go in stages, taking care not to stick things together and later find that an undercut prevents later fitting! (I learned this the hard way!). Finish however you think it should look. I do not want to comment on this because I would need to be familiar with it in person. There are many ways to go here. Once the finish is as close to perfect as it can be, remount using shellac resin or pitch, whichever way,it was originally mounted. DO NOT USE GLUE, or other permanent fixes. In a good, sensitive restoration, you always want to be able to back out! This is imperative. The scabbard looks like it could be tackled with some care and a lot of study. Remember: go slowly, and do not do anything that cannot be undone. Now back to the earlier situation. If the grip has been grooved for the wire during a period repair, remove it, repair the grip as outlined above. Once that's done to your satisfaction, you might consider either silver plated copper, naked copper or silver wire, depending on what you think the piece merits. There is no way to undo any grooves cut in, so you're stuck with a lesser of evils approach. Make sure the wire used whatever it is is annealed dead soft. It will cooperate a lot better.

11th August 2014, 03:22 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Any ideas of origin and age from our Moro experts?