Labels, true or just heaps of bull****

[Tim Simmons]

I do not know? In my experience they are added spin. I got these two at a militeria fare today. Just guns and big war stuff, a few Indian pieces, the only ethnographic bits were a couple of knobkerrie a Chokwe axe and these. Not expensive but big enough outlay for items one would be cautious of.

I think it was early this year that I met a fellow member at the British Museum while viewing a small collection of many similar artifacts on loan from the USA {Washington DC} no photographs allowed. These two pieces do not appear to be any different. The club with the round stone held in a bent stick covered in tree resin is 54cm long not including the tassles {rather fragile}, 6cm diameter stone. I like this one the most. The one with the painted stone 61cm long, the stone just over 6x4x3cm. Quite whip like in action, small but would easily knock a hole in your head. I am just a sucker for bull?

[Atlantia]

Labels are the easiest thing to fake thats for sure!
That saying, the clubs look good! Where was the fair?

[David]

There are, of course, a great variety of styles and forms in the world of Native American clubs and i would be the first to admit that i don't know much about them. But one thing that does seem to be present in most of the ones i've see is a high level of craft which seems absent here. I am therefore rather suspicious of these as authentic examples.

[David]

Is is a link to some examples of Plains Tribes war clubs:
http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gall...clubspage1.htm

[Tim Simmons]

Great Link David. I have some information to up load. Like you, with this sort of material one always has concerns about authenticity. I am on the fence. I have to say on inspection with a x10 loop there is a lot of craft, more than at first glance. The hide wrap on both items is not unravelled soaked dog chew hide. The hair still in the hide shows considerable preperation. Anybody can cut tassle in leather but I have to say they are very well done, very fine. Making a hole in a flint pebble is not that easy? The clubs on display at the British Museum were of all sizes and shape and size of stone. Many had the most beautiful beadwork on the handles.

There does seem to have been an auction of a Black Pipe Bank state collection, but I can find little info.

My reseach ref- Black Pipe Bank collection, has leed me to this auction house "SHOBE AUCTION & REALTY" I have email them to see if there is any possiblity of information.

[fearn]

It's possible they're genuine, since the wrappings are rawhide and the colors are consistent with what I've read for the Lakota.

That said, it's not hard to fake, and the specimens look a bit clumsy, compared to some of the other swinging clubs.

The real test actually is swinging them (not to hit anything). If the stone head goes where you want it, that's a positive. If it twists all over the place, I'd be more concerned.

Best,

F

[Tim Simmons]

Still undecided, but hurting somebody would be no problem. Some similar concepts of club. I could imagine hitting with the small stone club bringing great honour like the coup stick. I could just in dream land