Basket Hilt help?

CSinTX · 2nd July 2020, 06:08 AM

A good friend contacted me today about an old sword that was in the possession of a family member. Its not often that truly old items popup here in the US. Almost everything here has been purchased and imported from Europe in recent years. I expected to get pictures of a KofC sword or something similar. I was pleasantly surprised in what I saw. Recent rust from sitting in an unoccupied home in the Mississippi humidity. Oral family history reports that it was "taken from a dead French soldier in Canada during the French and Indian war."

While it being on a French soldier seems odd, does the age/time match?

Can anyone tell us anything about it? Age? Origin? Etc?

Thanks!

mariusgmioc · 2nd July 2020, 11:01 AM

Wow, very interesting find!

To me, it looks like an English broadsword from the early 19th century.

Unfortunately, it is badly in need of major restauration work.

NeilUK · 2nd July 2020, 12:54 PM

Definitely an interesting sword. I would say Scots or English basket hilt broadsword from mid 18th century. Could easily have changed hands several times in the wars!
Neil

Will M · 2nd July 2020, 01:47 PM

I agree with Neil for age of the sword. Many basket hilts that now are in the white once looked like this one.
The blade appears long have you measured it?

ulfberth · 2nd July 2020, 03:30 PM

What a find ! a true sleeper , one should ask himself to clean/restore it or not.
Once taken of the patina is gone forever.

Jim McDougall · 2nd July 2020, 05:34 PM

Absolutely mid 18th or slightly earlier, Glasgow style hilt Beautiful!!!
French were not only in Canada then but all through upper midwest and the northeast.......French Indian wars 1740s, mostly due to English concerns over French encroachment into territories etc.
The Scots were of course part of English military forces after Culloden (1746) but in many cases before.

Scottish settlers in Canada through 18th into 19th ....my grandparents were among them.
Story could be right.............regardless, magnificent basket hilt.
PLEASE clean with restraint, stablilize any corrosion.................this is breathtaking,

Another note on potential French element in the provenance, France had a profound Jacobite presence, in fact Prince Charlie was in France preCulloden.
The Jacobite presence continued there after Culloden, and Charles returned there for a time. It would be hard to say exactly how the sword was in Canada, but it is not surprising, these were widely present in America and probably Canada through the latter 18th c. after Culloden.

These also saw extensive use in the American Revolution, see "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" George Nuemann, 1973.

Jim McDougall · 2nd July 2020, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

What a find ! a true sleeper , one should ask himself to clean/restore it or not.
Once taken of the patina is gone forever.

Well said!!!

It is history and signals the well earned veneration of the weapon. It is about respect for history, something that seems to be slipping away.

Norman McCormick · 4th July 2020, 07:54 PM

Hi,
This article may give more insight on the Garde Ecossaise or Scottish Guard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garde_Écossaise and https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ins...rs-helped.html

Regards,
Norman.

2nd July 2020, 06:08 AM	#1
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	Basket Hilt help? A good friend contacted me today about an old sword that was in the possession of a family member. Its not often that truly old items popup here in the US. Almost everything here has been purchased and imported from Europe in recent years. I expected to get pictures of a KofC sword or something similar. I was pleasantly surprised in what I saw. Recent rust from sitting in an unoccupied home in the Mississippi humidity. Oral family history reports that it was "taken from a dead French soldier in Canada during the French and Indian war." While it being on a French soldier seems odd, does the age/time match? Can anyone tell us anything about it? Age? Origin? Etc? Thanks! Attached Images

2nd July 2020, 05:34 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,951	Absolutely mid 18th or slightly earlier, Glasgow style hilt Beautiful!!! French were not only in Canada then but all through upper midwest and the northeast.......French Indian wars 1740s, mostly due to English concerns over French encroachment into territories etc. The Scots were of course part of English military forces after Culloden (1746) but in many cases before. Scottish settlers in Canada through 18th into 19th ....my grandparents were among them. Story could be right.............regardless, magnificent basket hilt. PLEASE clean with restraint, stablilize any corrosion.................this is breathtaking, Another note on potential French element in the provenance, France had a profound Jacobite presence, in fact Prince Charlie was in France preCulloden. The Jacobite presence continued there after Culloden, and Charles returned there for a time. It would be hard to say exactly how the sword was in Canada, but it is not surprising, these were widely present in America and probably Canada through the latter 18th c. after Culloden. These also saw extensive use in the American Revolution, see "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" George Nuemann, 1973. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 2nd July 2020 at 08:26 PM.

2nd July 2020, 11:01 AM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Wow, very interesting find! To me, it looks like an English broadsword from the early 19th century. Unfortunately, it is badly in need of major restauration work.

2nd July 2020, 12:54 PM	#3
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	Definitely an interesting sword. I would say Scots or English basket hilt broadsword from mid 18th century. Could easily have changed hands several times in the wars! Neil

2nd July 2020, 01:47 PM	#4
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I agree with Neil for age of the sword. Many basket hilts that now are in the white once looked like this one. The blade appears long have you measured it?

2nd July 2020, 03:30 PM	#5
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 403	What a find ! a true sleeper , one should ask himself to clean/restore it or not. Once taken of the patina is gone forever.

4th July 2020, 07:54 PM	#8
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Hi, This article may give more insight on the Garde Ecossaise or Scottish Guard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garde_Écossaise and https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ins...rs-helped.html Regards, Norman.