help with calligraphy on Shamshir and/or Kilij

G Scott · 31st March 2020, 08:09 PM

Hi new member here and I do not have much knowledge of these swords I obtained in Amman recently. Based on googling images I believe these are examples of a Shamshir and/or Kilij sward - presumably Ottoman-Turk period in the region. They appear to be at least 50 years old. Is it possible for someone with knowledge of the calligraphy to help me identify both the maker and the terms on these swords? Thanks

mariusgmioc · 31st March 2020, 11:42 PM

Hello and welcome!

As a rule, you should post photos of the whole sword!

In order to get a more educated answer you should post photos of the whole sword.

All said, both look like modern Indian made decorative swords.

Oliver Pinchot · 1st April 2020, 01:22 AM

These are contemporary work, made for the tourist trade.

G Scott · 1st April 2020, 03:24 AM

I am quite sure these are "tourist grade," seems reasonable to assume as they do not appear to be very well made. Sorry for the partial photo, but I am mostly interested if someone can help me understand the calligraphy on the blades. The two appear to be different cursive styles. one with square calligraphy and the other entirely different. Thank you again.

Battara · 1st April 2020, 05:40 AM

Well that makes sense. It's like someone ground off the yelmens!

mariusgmioc · 1st April 2020, 10:47 AM

I have wandered the souk of Amman. Very difficult to find something genuine of quality there. Almost everything is modern Indian made... And almost all sellers were saying everything they sell is genuine beduin work...

I only found a few shibriya daggers that were probably locally made but their quality was horrible.

G Scott · 1st April 2020, 06:46 PM

OK - new to this forum and trying to find my way on posting replies. My initial message was asking for help in understanding the calligraphy on the 2 swords posted. Appreciate the comments on these being made in India for tourists. This is probably true as I found them in a back office of an art dealer while chatting. However - my main question is can someone help me understand the calligraphy on both swords and maker marks? The bottom sword has calligraphy on both sides of blade and on top, appears square islamic calligraphy. The top sword appears older and has calligraphy on both sides of blade and on top of the blade, but this is much more cursive and artistic. Again any thoughtful help, much appreciated. Also - someone mentioned I should post only full pictures of the swords - see attachment.

31st March 2020, 08:09 PM	#1
G Scott Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 3	help with calligraphy on Shamshir and/or Kilij Hi new member here and I do not have much knowledge of these swords I obtained in Amman recently. Based on googling images I believe these are examples of a Shamshir and/or Kilij sward - presumably Ottoman-Turk period in the region. They appear to be at least 50 years old. Is it possible for someone with knowledge of the calligraphy to help me identify both the maker and the terms on these swords? Thanks Attached Images

31st March 2020, 11:42 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Hello and welcome! As a rule, you should post photos of the whole sword! In order to get a more educated answer you should post photos of the whole sword. All said, both look like modern Indian made decorative swords. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 1st April 2020 at 10:36 AM.

1st April 2020, 05:40 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Well that makes sense. It's like someone ground off the yelmens! Last edited by Battara; 1st April 2020 at 08:51 PM.

1st April 2020, 10:47 AM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	I have wandered the souk of Amman. Very difficult to find something genuine of quality there. Almost everything is modern Indian made... And almost all sellers were saying everything they sell is genuine beduin work... I only found a few shibriya daggers that were probably locally made but their quality was horrible. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 1st April 2020 at 11:06 AM.

1st April 2020, 06:46 PM	#7
G Scott Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 3	help with calligraphy on Shamshir and/or Kilij OK - new to this forum and trying to find my way on posting replies. My initial message was asking for help in understanding the calligraphy on the 2 swords posted. Appreciate the comments on these being made in India for tourists. This is probably true as I found them in a back office of an art dealer while chatting. However - my main question is can someone help me understand the calligraphy on both swords and maker marks? The bottom sword has calligraphy on both sides of blade and on top, appears square islamic calligraphy. The top sword appears older and has calligraphy on both sides of blade and on top of the blade, but this is much more cursive and artistic. Again any thoughtful help, much appreciated. Also - someone mentioned I should post only full pictures of the swords - see attachment. Attached Images

1st April 2020, 01:22 AM	#3
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	These are contemporary work, made for the tourist trade.

1st April 2020, 03:24 AM	#4
G Scott Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 3	I am quite sure these are "tourist grade," seems reasonable to assume as they do not appear to be very well made. Sorry for the partial photo, but I am mostly interested if someone can help me understand the calligraphy on the blades. The two appear to be different cursive styles. one with square calligraphy and the other entirely different. Thank you again.