Dutch hussar saber

[cel7]

On the last day of 2023 I would like to show you my latest acquisition and ask a question about the manufacturer of the blade.
I bought this last month, not far from me, from a family where someone had passed away. They had no idea how the saber came into their possession, but it hung in their father's office for as long as they knew.
It is the right saber in the first photo. I believe it is a hussar saber for an officer. In the Dutch army and weapons museum they have some almost identical copies. These are referred to as Dutch sabers from the Batavian Republic or the Kingdom of Holland (1795-1806).
Because this one comes from a Dutch family, I assume that it also belonged to a Dutch officer.
Unlike the left example, this one has been ground and is still reasonably sharp. Something that is not self-evident for an officer's saber.
What I would like to know is who the manufacturer is? This could possibly narrow down the time period somewhat. The saber has the Solinger rose on the back and is marked on the ricasso. The problem, however, is that this is not completely visible due to the langet. What I can read is that it says "S & . Followed by several letters that, unfortunately, I can't make sense of.
Who can shed some light on this?

All that remains for me is to wish everyone a great 2024 with many beautiful old weapons.

[corrado26]

The sabre with the brass sheeth preobably is a French "Sabre d'officier de la cavalerie légère", produit à Solingen during the time of the Consulat.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by corrado26

The sabre with the brass sheeth preobably is a French "Sabre d'officier de la cavalerie légère", produit à Solingen during the time of the Consulat.

A word of caution about using L’Hoste as a reference from an experienced collector of French swords:

Now, for the inevitable l'Hoste. A fairly prolific author, with detailed works, and still very easy to find. Yet, I would absolutely not recommend it as a first source, because contrary to the authors above, l'Hoste made a few big mistakes and rarely indicated when he was venturing into conjectures. The result is that his mistakes are still repeated in collectors groups, auction houses and even museum collections to this day. He is a useful source to have though once you can crosscheck everything he writes against Ondry or Pétard.

This was in answer to the best sources on French swords. A shame because I also find L’Hoste’s books a convenient go-to on French swords.

[Radboud]

First off, a Happy New Year to you and our other esteemed members.

That is a lovely sabre, and I agree with your assessment that there is a good possibility that it belonged to a Dutch officer, one that could have served in Napoleons’ Grand Army, only to end up fighting against the French when the Dutch declared independence and changed sides! However we need to keep in mind that this style was popular with officers of other nations as well.

That said, I have a very similar sabre that can be attributed to a Dutch cutler, so I think the odds are very good that yours is Dutch from the time of the Kingdom of Holland and after.



The scabbard on my sword is likely a replacement from a French Hussar sabre.





The cutler; Rhys, the two dots over the Y are typical Dutch spelling of ij.



On the maker, I suspect that the S is for S & K of Schnitzler & Kirschbaum who were a prolific Solingen based distribution company rather than a manufacturer. This is the best information I have found online to the origins of the company, one that has a long history:

Thank you, Chape, for your comments, and Cathlineau for confirming the earlier date.

I have known the information from S&K = Schnitzler & Kirschbaum, and like Chape I have seen the period 1811-65 for the company. However, I was a little skeptical of an early date of 1811 as I had seen S&K marked blades of apparently consular sabers. I found the following while searching for German sources online (Google translate very useful!

City of Solingen Archive:
Contains: Bd. 1, 1803-1805 notebook of the company Johann and Peter Pieper & Co., Gräfrath, of the company Schnitzler & Kirschbaum, SolingenBd. 2, 1805-1807 Brief from Abraham Schnitzler, traveler of the Schnitzler & Kirschbaum company.

Also, from a Biography of the Schnitzler family (German)
The family had lived in Gräfrath, near Solingen, since the beginning of the 17th century. Family members have served in the civil service, some as mayors. They sold forged products from Solingen as merchants. As unprivileged merchants, they were prohibited from selling swords and blades. To get around this problem, → Philipp Jacob (1759-1811) founded in 1797 → with his uncle → Wilhelm Bernhard Samuel Kirschbaum (died 1803) of the company "Schnitzler & Kirschbaum". After the death of Philipp Jacob, his eldest son → Carl Eduard (1792-1864) took over the management.

So when we see the blades marked S&K, a date prior to 1811 should be considered.

cordially

source: https://www-passionmilitaria-com.tra...o=ajax,elem,se

[cel7]

Originally Posted by Radboud

First off, a Happy New Year to you and our other esteemed members.

That is a lovely sabre, and I agree with your assessment that there is a good possibility that it belonged to a Dutch officer, one that could have served in Napoleons’ Grand Army, only to end up fighting against the French when the Dutch declared independence and changed sides! However we need to keep in mind that this style was popular with officers of other nations as well.

That said, I have a very similar sabre that can be attributed to a Dutch cutler, so I think the odds are very good that yours is Dutch from the time of the Kingdom of Holland and after.

Attachment 233535

The scabbard on my sword is likely a replacement from a French Hussar sabre.

Attachment 233536

Attachment 233537

The cutler; Rhys, the two dots over the Y are typical Dutch spelling of ij.

Attachment 233538

On the maker, I suspect that the S is for S & K of Schnitzler & Kirschbaum who were a prolific Solingen based distribution company rather than a manufacturer. This is the best information I have found online to the origins of the company, one that has a long history:



source: https://www-passionmilitaria-com.tra...o=ajax,elem,se

Thank you Radboud! Nice to see that you have an almost identical one! Was "Rys" the maker of the saber or is this also a Solingen production?

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by cel7

Thank you Radboud! Nice to see that you have an almost identical one! Was "Rys" the maker of the saber or is this also a Solingen production?

The blade is also Solingen-produced and has the typical generic Solingen decorations. Rhys was the cutler who would have fitted the hilt and scabbard to an imported blade.