Fijian Club?

Nagawarrior · 29th May 2006, 05:43 PM

I bought this club as an African club. Thats just what I thought it was until recently, when a dealer told me that this is a Ula. Now I'm confused. What is the consensus here?

Tim Simmons · 29th May 2006, 09:46 PM

I do not think it is African. Very nice. Could be from Papua?

IainN · 29th May 2006, 09:48 PM

This is indeed an ula from Fiji. Nice example, often these have carvings around the shaft where it meets the head. Yours looks to be a very workman like example. These are a throwing club.

[image rehosted to save other folks' bandwidth, orig. source here (scroll down): http://www.janeresture.com/oceania_ethnology/fiji.htm]

Mapico1 · 29th May 2006, 11:24 PM

Sorry but this is no Ula but a stirr spoon from Kenya or Tanzania.
I have seen them many times offered on ebay as CLUB?????(with questionmarks because "club" sounds better than "spoon")

Nagawarrior · 30th May 2006, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapico1

Sorry but this is no Ula but a stirr spoon from Kenya or Tanzania.
I have seen them many times offered on ebay as CLUB?????(with questionmarks because "club" sounds better than "spoon")

The seller said either a club or food masher/spoon. Ula sure sounded much better. "If wishes were horses then dreamers would ride." You sound pretty sure about the "spoon". The Ula determination came from a dealer that specializes in African items. Thanks you for your insight.

fearn · 30th May 2006, 06:39 AM

Anybody who's been thwacked by someone's kitchen spoon (or a frying pan) knows there's some overlap between kitchen implements and weapons.

Nonetheless, this isn't an ula. The one posted by Louieblades is.

I don't have the reference with me, but there are three different names for the types shown by Iain (the ula is #178 on the right). The ula is a short throwing club supposedly thrown like a knife (so that it rotates end over end) and designed to hit handle first (to concentrate the force). Allegedly. There's a long argument about this on the old Vikingsword forum from around 2003.

My 0.02 cents,

F

drdavid · 30th May 2006, 10:35 AM

As a kitchen implement it looks more like a lemon juicer
DrD

BluErf · 30th May 2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Anybody who's been thwacked by someone's kitchen spoon (or a frying pan) knows there's some overlap between kitchen implements and weapons.

Haha! That's a good one!

A general (and possibly stupid) question about these clubs - looking at the relatively thin shaft on some of these clubs, how hard can one swing them (assuming they hit the target) before they break?

IainN · 30th May 2006, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapico1

Sorry but this is no Ula but a stirr spoon from Kenya or Tanzania.

I am currently selecting the crow to eat for supper.

Looking carefully at the photos there are few things that should have tipped me off, 1) the texture and patina are consistent with something from a dry dusty climate and 2) the wood looks almost pithy in the one photo of the head, which contrasts with the harder more tightly packed grained woods that ulas seem to usually be made out of. Quick assessments never make for a good i.d.

Nice to know what these things are if they come up frequently on Ebay.

Mapico1 · 30th May 2006, 03:08 PM

Here's the spoon I have in my collection.It was brought back 5 years ago from the Tanzania/Kenya region.

fearn · 30th May 2006, 04:55 PM

Hi BluErf,

I'll be interested for anyone to post measurements. Since I've been making staffs and canes for a while now, and reading about a bunch of clubs, I can give you the "it depends" answer now. Here's what it depends on, so far as I know:

Most weapons of any sort typically have handles less than 2" (5 cm) in diameter, simply because very few humans have a hand that can hold something thicker in a firm grasp. This includes things like sledge hammers and mauls, which can weigh 2-4 kg (5-10 lb) and have wooden handles.

Many clubs, staffs, etc. weigh between 2-5 lbs (1-2 kg, roughly), which, if you think about it, is the weight range of typical swords. I suspect that this is sort of an optimal range for weapons in general, being light enough to wield for an extended time, light enough to move dextrously, yet heavy enough to cause damage.

The basic point is that clubs seem to fall in the range of weights for all weapons, including axes, hammers, swords, spears, and maces. We seldom worry about handle failure in these tools, even though the handles are seldom more than 1" thick.

To give some idea about the relative strengths of woods, a yew longbow 1" wide and 1/2" thick would probably have a draw weight in the 50-100 lb range. a round "bow" that was 1" by 1" would probably have >100 lb draw weight for yew and for many woods. If you think of a club handle as a short, stiff bow, it looks like a 1-1.5" thick handle is thick enough to handle the forces its user would apply to it. Personally, I suspect that a club handle would only fail if there was a defect in the wood, due to rot, insect damage, or cutting across the grain of the wood. However, I would not recommend stress testing a century-old club, since wood does deteriorate with age...

My 0.02 cents,

F

30th May 2006, 03:08 PM	#10
Mapico1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	Here's the spoon I have in my collection.It was brought back 5 years ago from the Tanzania/Kenya region. Attached Images

29th May 2006, 05:43 PM	#1
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	Fijian Club? I bought this club as an African club. Thats just what I thought it was until recently, when a dealer told me that this is a Ula. Now I'm confused. What is the consensus here?

29th May 2006, 09:46 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I do not think it is African. Very nice. Could be from Papua?

29th May 2006, 09:48 PM	#3
IainN Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 31	This is indeed an ula from Fiji. Nice example, often these have carvings around the shaft where it meets the head. Yours looks to be a very workman like example. These are a throwing club. [image rehosted to save other folks' bandwidth, orig. source here (scroll down): http://www.janeresture.com/oceania_ethnology/fiji.htm]

29th May 2006, 11:24 PM	#4
Mapico1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	Sorry but this is no Ula but a stirr spoon from Kenya or Tanzania. I have seen them many times offered on ebay as CLUB?????(with questionmarks because "club" sounds better than "spoon")

30th May 2006, 06:39 AM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Anybody who's been thwacked by someone's kitchen spoon (or a frying pan) knows there's some overlap between kitchen implements and weapons. Nonetheless, this isn't an ula. The one posted by Louieblades is. I don't have the reference with me, but there are three different names for the types shown by Iain (the ula is #178 on the right). The ula is a short throwing club supposedly thrown like a knife (so that it rotates end over end) and designed to hit handle first (to concentrate the force). Allegedly. There's a long argument about this on the old Vikingsword forum from around 2003. My 0.02 cents, F

30th May 2006, 10:35 AM	#7
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	As a kitchen implement it looks more like a lemon juicer DrD

30th May 2006, 04:55 PM	#11
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi BluErf, I'll be interested for anyone to post measurements. Since I've been making staffs and canes for a while now, and reading about a bunch of clubs, I can give you the "it depends" answer now. Here's what it depends on, so far as I know: Most weapons of any sort typically have handles less than 2" (5 cm) in diameter, simply because very few humans have a hand that can hold something thicker in a firm grasp. This includes things like sledge hammers and mauls, which can weigh 2-4 kg (5-10 lb) and have wooden handles. Many clubs, staffs, etc. weigh between 2-5 lbs (1-2 kg, roughly), which, if you think about it, is the weight range of typical swords. I suspect that this is sort of an optimal range for weapons in general, being light enough to wield for an extended time, light enough to move dextrously, yet heavy enough to cause damage. The basic point is that clubs seem to fall in the range of weights for all weapons, including axes, hammers, swords, spears, and maces. We seldom worry about handle failure in these tools, even though the handles are seldom more than 1" thick. To give some idea about the relative strengths of woods, a yew longbow 1" wide and 1/2" thick would probably have a draw weight in the 50-100 lb range. a round "bow" that was 1" by 1" would probably have >100 lb draw weight for yew and for many woods. If you think of a club handle as a short, stiff bow, it looks like a 1-1.5" thick handle is thick enough to handle the forces its user would apply to it. Personally, I suspect that a club handle would only fail if there was a defect in the wood, due to rot, insect damage, or cutting across the grain of the wood. However, I would not recommend stress testing a century-old club, since wood does deteriorate with age... My 0.02 cents, F