Cuphilt sword for comment

[shayde78]

Well, I took another swing on an unnoticed (or dismissed) piece. I'm not sure this can properly be called a rapier, but it seems to fit the style/proportions for bilbo swords circulating among the Spanish colonies. It is well worn and, to me, this lends it a character that more pristine examples lack (not to say I wouldn't happily take any 'extra' pristine beauties anyone might have lying about!). I know many of you agree.

So, given my track record, I acknowledge there is a good chance this is not an authentic period piece. I will offer the elements that convinced me to take a chance, as well as those that give me pause.

First, dimensions:
Overall Length - 43.5"
Blade length (point to guard) - 36"
Width of quillions - 8.25"
Cup diameter - 4.75"

The point of balance is right where it should be. The blade's original length appears to be intact.

What seems correct to me:
The blade appears correct and consistent with these mounts.
The quillions/quillion block appear correct. The fact that the knuckle guard is missing and the damaged remnants remain present suggests authenticity.
The grip appears correct, although missing the 'posts'. However, the detail of the grooves in the grip into which these posts would have fit is another detail that seems to indicate authenticity.
It also has what I think is termed 'guardo polvo', although this seems to strengthen the guard and would do little to protect against dust. Indeed, there is a good amount of dust from the previous owner evident in the pictures Given the damage to the guard, this extra bit of reinforcement makes a lot of sense in a proper fighting weapon.

What gives me pause:
Looking at the ricasso, it is out of alignment with the grip. This could be the function of less than perfect colonial assembly. It could be dislocated due to hard use. Or, it is poor marriage of composite parts at a much more recent date.
The pommel doesn't seem quite right. Everything balances correctly, but the shape seems 'off'.
The ferrules at either end of the grip have little oxidation. The do seem to fulfill the appropriate purpose of holding the [missing] posts to the grip, but they don't seem to have aged consistently with the rest of the piece. Still, if a later addition, why add them at all?

So, for the most part, I think I did well here. As always I welcome your comments, and value your insights.

[Jim McDougall]

This is beautiful!!! and as you say, this kind of rugged charm is outstanding, a working weapon.
This is effectively a 'rapier' (obviously by the cup hilt form semantically associated in true rapiers). It is actually an 'arming sword' and typically used by Spanish colonial forces in the Caribbean regions and 'Spanish Main' (Central and South America off Gulf).

It is most definitely 18th century, probably earlier in century, and as with colonial weapons, refurbished over long working lives.
The wire wrap and posts are missing, and as you have noted this was an affectation typically on the 'bilbo' which was basically a 1728 'pattern' (though in use before through the century).

The guardopolvo (=dust cover) does not exist in these, they were a decorative plate at the blade junction inside the cup.

These were typically carried by infantry forces in the colonies and existed concurrently with the bilbo. As these colonial forces were remote they seldom had stringent regulation, and swords were more tradition than weapon as a rule.

Outstanding weapon!! and these are not often seen available, even less than bilbos.

[M ELEY]

Great piece with terrific character!! Not much more to add than what Jim has already succinctly covered. They were indeed from the Spanish Main during the later era of piracy and have naval connotation in that they were carried aboard the Treasure Fleets by Spanish soldiers defending the gold. Although a cut/thrust weapon, they definitely saw use at sea. They really define the adventurous era of the West Indies in the New World. Congrats!

[Victrix]

Nice sword! It looks like it could have been at sea. The blade looks a bit like the ”NO ME SAQUES RAZON / NE ME EMBAINES SIN HONOR,” (DO NOT DRAW ME WITHOUT REASON, DO NOT SHEATH ME WITHOUT HONOR) type popular at the time (see attached pics of bilbo). The ricasso is inline with the sword but the grip with guard is a bit off in terms of positioning. Maybe the wood has shifted due to age/submerged in seawater? Sometimes the ricasso has a maker’s mark. You can investigate using a small mirror to see better. The ferrules may be from a metal that don’t oxidate as much, e.g. pewter? The pommel has an unusual mushroom shape, and may be a replacement. It seems to be screwed on to the tang? Jim’s example is peened to the tang.

[M ELEY]

Victrix, you bring up an excellent point and it is possible that we are looking at saltwater errosion here. While many of these types were made from various odds and ends the smiths could come by in New Spain, this pommel I feel is authentic to the blade. The caribbean type rapiers distinguish themselves from their European counterparts by having these traits (no rompe-puntas, mushroom pommels, plain unpierced/undecorated guards, flat horn/wood grips often square in crosscut, and sometimes braised elements to the arms of the hilt/pas de' ann). Here's pics of mine-

[Jim McDougall]

Capn, that is a SUPERB example!!!! Beautiful ebony grip, nicely turned quillon terminals and the edge around the cup a nice touch. I think one of the best examples of these I've seen.
Mine I am sure has been reworked of course as the ivory spacers reveal a circumstance in refurbishing, and as noted the hilt has been peened.
Still traces of japanning and must have had a long working life.

Yours is a fine example which likely would have been an officers aboard a vessel. Outstanding.

Victrix- great call on the 'Spanish motto' blade!!

[shayde78]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback!
I knew I could expect the three of you to appreciate the well-worn nature of this piece. Jim frequently cautions about polishing off the history of these old warriors, and I take that to heart. I also thought of Mark since, like Vitrix,I wondered if this had been exposed to saltwater. I didn't want to prejudice the comments by suggesting this outright, but am heartened to hear others share this impression.

One thing that amazes me is how, after hundreds of years, these retain their edge. This one shows some clear nicks that look to be caused by another sharp edge. I will try to upload pictures of these details soon.

Also, I wanted to clarify - this sword DOES have the guardo polvo. YOu can make it out in the 4th picture of the original post. It is a simple diamond shape, and you can see on the exterior of the cup the large rivets holding it in place (transverse of the rivets securing the pas d-ans). Does this narrow down age attribution, or does this muddy things more?

I have a question about the flexibility of the blades on these and other side/arming swords from this time period. Unlike swords of earlier periods, those of this era were being issued to soldiers that were not part of a knightly class, and therefore (possibly) were not as proficient in their use. Was the flex tempered into these blades designed to allow them to withstand poorly executed thrusts and cuts? Or, was this a feature even well trained swordsmen would have favored. After all, if one thrust and contacted a steel breastplate, you might want a degree of flex to ensure the blade didn't fail.

Finally, for now, what would be carried in the off/left hand. This is not the most responsive weapon in terms of providing both an effective offense and defense. If indeed these were carried at sea, I could see a stout pistol serving this purpose. Or any nondescript knife. I'm asking simply to see if there was a convention, or one used whatever was at hand.

Thanks again for you insights! To be honest, I love when you give me good news, but it is always educational