OAKSHOTT Typ X 🤔

Merenti · 24th September 2021, 08:17 PM

Hello from germany.

My name is Markus and i come from germany.

I collect edged weapons from Europe until 1700.

I came across the forum by chance and am looking for like-minded people and experts who share my hobby. Also very happy to have contacts in Germany.

I wanted to ask you if you could tell me something about originality.

It's supposed to be an OAKSHOTT type x. I'm not sure about the pommel though. this consists of one part

Total length = 98 cm, blade length a good 85 cm, blade thickness approx. 5 mm, blade width ad cross-guard 52 mm, weight 980 grams

fernando · 25th September 2021, 11:29 AM

Welcome to the forum Markus

.
Let us see what the knowledged members have to say about your sword.

Merenti · 28th September 2021, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Welcome to the forum Markus

.
Let us see what the knowledged members have to say about your sword.

Hey Fernando thank you.

I hope the experts can help me.

The patina looks great and the proportions are right.

The pommel I find very strange

Philip · 28th September 2021, 10:31 PM

Markus, thanks for posting this. Could you please provide a photo showing the entire sword in a single direct view?

Merenti · 30th September 2021, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Markus, thanks for posting this. Could you please provide a photo showing the entire sword in a single direct view?

hey Philip, unfortunately I only get these photos from the seller

francantolin · 30th September 2021, 01:52 PM

Hello,

Really nice item !!
I find the pommel strange too but the patina seems genuine,
does the seller sell it as 100% antique guarantee...
depends on how much you paid for...

Jim McDougall · 30th September 2021, 08:15 PM

While I suspect that the notable silence on this presented example is due to the fact that it seems to be prospectively involved in a sales transaction, I would at least try to take advantage of what it 'APPEARS' to be.

Though the corrosion activity 'APPEARS' to correspond to excavated examples of early swords, we are of course aware of less than authentic examples which have occurred in many cases.

I always enjoy learning from examples presented here on the forum, so I am taking the opportunity to observe what historic categories this one 'might' be from, without any conclusive assessment.

Oakeshott type X (Oakeshott, "Archaeology of Weapons", 1960), as noted, does seem closest to the category this sword follows, however the blade seems to remain rather straight along its length rather than having a gradual taper distally.
According to Oakeshott (p.203), after 1100 swords were basically alike, although with infinite variations. This is understandable as the numbers of makers and no real standardization or regulation would create such case.
In the typology, the blades shown are really all remarkably alike with exception of central fuller length.

It has been noted that pommel seems unusual. Actually it seems to correspond well to type A (Oakeshott op.cit.p.224) which is shown to period 980AD to 1120AD, with more rarely type X extending with these to c.1200AD). These comparisons are noted to derive from the Behmer & Petersen systems of typology. These pommels seem to have evolved from 'Viking' types.

The very 'squared' looking crossguard corresponds to fig. 113, #3 (p.232, Oakeshott, op.cit.) noted from c.1100-1350. Here it is noted of course, that again, hilts and their fixtures were largely of personal taste or I would think local or group preferences.

In "Swords of the Viking Age" (Ian Pierce, 2002 with Dr. Lee Jones and Ewart Oakeshott) on p.106 a sword with blade similar illustrates a Viking sword from c. 10th c. with such swords from Norway and that period. There are of course numerous others.

So purely as 'devils advocate' for the sake of discussion of swords of this 'type', I add this information from my own study just done for this purpose alone. I hope possibly this would be possible completely objectively focused on the sword type represented and the characteristics, without any assessment of integrity of the example presented.

cornelistromp · 3rd October 2021, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merenti

hey Philip, unfortunately I only get these photos from the seller

is the sword offered as an original or a recent reproduction?

Merenti · 4th October 2021, 07:20 PM

yes, the seller sells it as an original. I think the sword is very harmonious, but I think the pommel is funny. it is folded instead of made from one piece

the patina also looks incredibly good

24th September 2021, 08:17 PM	#1
Merenti Member Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Germany Posts: 67	OAKSHOTT Typ X 🤔 Hello from germany. My name is Markus and i come from germany. I collect edged weapons from Europe until 1700. I came across the forum by chance and am looking for like-minded people and experts who share my hobby. Also very happy to have contacts in Germany. I wanted to ask you if you could tell me something about originality. It's supposed to be an OAKSHOTT type x. I'm not sure about the pommel though. this consists of one part Total length = 98 cm, blade length a good 85 cm, blade thickness approx. 5 mm, blade width ad cross-guard 52 mm, weight 980 grams Attached Images

25th September 2021, 11:29 AM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Welcome to the forum Markus . Let us see what the knowledged members have to say about your sword.

28th September 2021, 10:31 PM	#4
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Markus, thanks for posting this. Could you please provide a photo showing the entire sword in a single direct view?

30th September 2021, 01:52 PM	#6
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 877	Hello, Really nice item !! I find the pommel strange too but the patina seems genuine, does the seller sell it as 100% antique guarantee... depends on how much you paid for...

30th September 2021, 08:15 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	While I suspect that the notable silence on this presented example is due to the fact that it seems to be prospectively involved in a sales transaction, I would at least try to take advantage of what it 'APPEARS' to be. Though the corrosion activity 'APPEARS' to correspond to excavated examples of early swords, we are of course aware of less than authentic examples which have occurred in many cases. I always enjoy learning from examples presented here on the forum, so I am taking the opportunity to observe what historic categories this one 'might' be from, without any conclusive assessment. Oakeshott type X (Oakeshott, "Archaeology of Weapons", 1960), as noted, does seem closest to the category this sword follows, however the blade seems to remain rather straight along its length rather than having a gradual taper distally. According to Oakeshott (p.203), after 1100 swords were basically alike, although with infinite variations. This is understandable as the numbers of makers and no real standardization or regulation would create such case. In the typology, the blades shown are really all remarkably alike with exception of central fuller length. It has been noted that pommel seems unusual. Actually it seems to correspond well to type A (Oakeshott op.cit.p.224) which is shown to period 980AD to 1120AD, with more rarely type X extending with these to c.1200AD). These comparisons are noted to derive from the Behmer & Petersen systems of typology. These pommels seem to have evolved from 'Viking' types. The very 'squared' looking crossguard corresponds to fig. 113, #3 (p.232, Oakeshott, op.cit.) noted from c.1100-1350. Here it is noted of course, that again, hilts and their fixtures were largely of personal taste or I would think local or group preferences. In "Swords of the Viking Age" (Ian Pierce, 2002 with Dr. Lee Jones and Ewart Oakeshott) on p.106 a sword with blade similar illustrates a Viking sword from c. 10th c. with such swords from Norway and that period. There are of course numerous others. So purely as 'devils advocate' for the sake of discussion of swords of this 'type', I add this information from my own study just done for this purpose alone. I hope possibly this would be possible completely objectively focused on the sword type represented and the characteristics, without any assessment of integrity of the example presented.

4th October 2021, 07:20 PM	#9
Merenti Member Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Germany Posts: 67	yes, the seller sells it as an original. I think the sword is very harmonious, but I think the pommel is funny. it is folded instead of made from one piece the patina also looks incredibly good