Seven village metal?

Pusaka · 8th November 2011, 04:25 PM

I recall reading some time ago that some keris pendok are made from an alloy of several metals. I do not remember the name given for this alloy but I do recall that the purpose of using this alloy was to insulate or hold the isi in the keris blade, that is to preserve the energies of the keris.

I recall that the alloy was a brass base however small amounts of gold, silver and other metals were added to the melt. I have one pendok that I think may be made of this alloy. Unlike brass or silver it has not tarnished despite being old. I suspect that the small amount of gold added to the molten brass resists rusting.

I recall talking to a silat player who showed me a small knife which was made of a pink colour alloy. He believed that this blade would protect its owner. When I asked what type of metal the blade was made from I got a similar answer, he said that it was actually made from a mixture of several metals and that it was rare.

On another occasion I recall a silat player showing me a belt buckle, again made from a mixture of several metals and also supposedly had the ability to protect its owner. I think he called it “7 village metal”

This practice is also common in India and Tibet. In India there is an alloy called panchaloha which literally means five metal alloy. It has been used since ancient times and is used in India to make jewellery and sacred objects. In Tibet it is the alloy from which Tibetan singing bowls, a type of musical instrument are composed.

Just wanted to know if anyone here had heard of similar storys or perhaps know the name and historical use of this metal in Indonesia.

klewang · 8th November 2011, 05:27 PM

The name of the alloy you looking for is probably suassa, soeassa, etc.
Check this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=suasa

David · 8th November 2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klewang

The name of the alloy you looking for is probably suassa, soeassa, etc.
Check this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=suasa

I do not think that Pusaka is thinking about suasa Klewang. Suasa is generally made of only 3 metals (gold, silver and copper) and is very heavy on the copper.
Traditional Tibetan singing bowls are often supposedly made with a 7-metal mixture, though there is no actual supporting evidence to support the claim. The idea of 7 basic metals seems to run through both Eastern and Western currents. In the West they are connected with the 7 astrological planets and alchemy.
The alloy i think you are most likely to see a pendok in is mamas, which is more like a German silver. I have seen suasa used on rare occasions. If anyone has an example of a pendok supposedly made from a 7-metal alloy i would love to see it posted. Can you post a photo of yours Pusaka? This 7-metal concept seems much more popular on the Asian mainland than in Indonesia AFAIK.

Pusaka · 8th November 2011, 10:51 PM

I cant upload a picture of the pendok right know but it is the same colour as this panchaloha statue, not as yellow as brass but not as rich/golden as gold. It hasn’t tarnished unlike a brass pendok. There is nothing special about the construction of the pendok itself, actually very plain.

I have seen a metallurgical analysis of antique Tibetan singing bowls and it demonstrated that they were made from a complex alloy which contained also quantities of gold and silver.

My understanding is that they were (not modern ones) made from five metals (panchaloha) and westerners made up this concept of them being made of seven metals to fit their own understanding i.e. one metal for each planet.
Just consider the addition of quicksilver to represent the planet mercury and you will know it is impossible i.e. it will boil off before the other metals are even red hot filling the room with mercury vapor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchaloha

David · 9th November 2011, 02:06 AM

Oxford University recently conducted a study with the company Himalayan Bowls and found that singing bowls have been made in the Himalayan region for at least 600-800 years, and are likely related to bronze bowls produced in Central and Western Asia. Extensive metallurgical analysis by Himalayan Bowls and Oxford University has discovered that the bowls are made from "high tin bronze," also known as "bell metal bronze," which is a pure mixture of copper and tin. Contrary to popular folklore, there is no evidence to support the claims that singing bowls contain "7 metals" (Joseph Feinstein, 2011).

This seems to dispute even the idea of 5-metal bowls. As for your pendok, it may indeed be suasa if it has a gold look and does not tarnish. Again, not 5 metals, but 3. I have never hear of any 5-metal mixtures being used on pendoks, but maybe someone else has more info.
The photo of the statue is fairly useless in this conversation since the true color of the mixed metals here are unknown. Color shifts dependent upon light in which it is shot and white balance used. Also colors shift from one computer screen to another. Telling us that your pendok looks like the metal in this statue does not bring us any closer to determining the materials that your pendok have been made of. It probably looks different on my screen than on yours. You would have to have it tested to know anything definite.

A. G. Maisey · 9th November 2011, 03:50 AM

I've got a pendok that is on an old Solo keris that is made from a metal that is the colour of copper, but it has never tarnished like copper. It is definitely not suasa, I have no idea what it is. I've had it about 45 years.

The keris that goes with this keris has some kinatah work that I thought was brass when I bought it, but it also never tarnished, and is not gold.

Pusaka · 10th November 2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Oxford University recently conducted a study with the company Himalayan Bowls and found that singing bowls have been made in the Himalayan region for at least 600-800 years, and are likely related to bronze bowls produced in Central and Western Asia. Extensive metallurgical analysis by Himalayan Bowls and Oxford University has discovered that the bowls are made from "high tin bronze," also known as "bell metal bronze," which is a pure mixture of copper and tin. Contrary to popular folklore, there is no evidence to support the claims that singing bowls contain "7 metals" (Joseph Feinstein, 2011).

This seems to dispute even the idea of 5-metal bowls. As for your pendok, it may indeed be suasa if it has a gold look and does not tarnish. Again, not 5 metals, but 3. I have never hear of any 5-metal mixtures being used on pendoks, but maybe someone else has more info.
The photo of the statue is fairly useless in this conversation since the true color of the mixed metals here are unknown. Color shifts dependent upon light in which it is shot and white balance used. Also colors shift from one computer screen to another. Telling us that your pendok looks like the metal in this statue does not bring us any closer to determining the materials that your pendok have been made of. It probably looks different on my screen than on yours. You would have to have it tested to know
anything definite.

David the analysis I seen was done by the British Museum in London and the analysis was of old antique Tibetan bowls.
All of the modern bowls are just made of bronze despite what the seller says. The people in the village where they make the majority of modern bowls are very poor, they don’t have piles of gold and silver lying around from which to make bowls.
Basically either the people who sell them are deceived into thinking they are made of seven metals or they know they are not but sell them as such despite this.

A metallurgical analysis, done by the British Museum in London, reveals that the instruments are made of a 12-metal alloy consisting of silver, nickel, copper, zinc, antimony, tin, lead, cobalt, bismuth, arsenic, cadmium and iron. Now a lost art, it appears that this quality of bell bowl cannot be reproduced today.

8th November 2011, 04:25 PM	#1
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Seven village metal? I recall reading some time ago that some keris pendok are made from an alloy of several metals. I do not remember the name given for this alloy but I do recall that the purpose of using this alloy was to insulate or hold the isi in the keris blade, that is to preserve the energies of the keris. I recall that the alloy was a brass base however small amounts of gold, silver and other metals were added to the melt. I have one pendok that I think may be made of this alloy. Unlike brass or silver it has not tarnished despite being old. I suspect that the small amount of gold added to the molten brass resists rusting. I recall talking to a silat player who showed me a small knife which was made of a pink colour alloy. He believed that this blade would protect its owner. When I asked what type of metal the blade was made from I got a similar answer, he said that it was actually made from a mixture of several metals and that it was rare. On another occasion I recall a silat player showing me a belt buckle, again made from a mixture of several metals and also supposedly had the ability to protect its owner. I think he called it “7 village metal” This practice is also common in India and Tibet. In India there is an alloy called panchaloha which literally means five metal alloy. It has been used since ancient times and is used in India to make jewellery and sacred objects. In Tibet it is the alloy from which Tibetan singing bowls, a type of musical instrument are composed. Just wanted to know if anyone here had heard of similar storys or perhaps know the name and historical use of this metal in Indonesia.

8th November 2011, 05:27 PM	#2
klewang Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 23	suasa The name of the alloy you looking for is probably suassa, soeassa, etc. Check this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=suasa

8th November 2011, 10:51 PM	#4
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	I cant upload a picture of the pendok right know but it is the same colour as this panchaloha statue, not as yellow as brass but not as rich/golden as gold. It hasn’t tarnished unlike a brass pendok. There is nothing special about the construction of the pendok itself, actually very plain. I have seen a metallurgical analysis of antique Tibetan singing bowls and it demonstrated that they were made from a complex alloy which contained also quantities of gold and silver. My understanding is that they were (not modern ones) made from five metals (panchaloha) and westerners made up this concept of them being made of seven metals to fit their own understanding i.e. one metal for each planet. Just consider the addition of quicksilver to represent the planet mercury and you will know it is impossible i.e. it will boil off before the other metals are even red hot filling the room with mercury vapor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchaloha Attached Images

9th November 2011, 02:06 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Oxford University recently conducted a study with the company Himalayan Bowls and found that singing bowls have been made in the Himalayan region for at least 600-800 years, and are likely related to bronze bowls produced in Central and Western Asia. Extensive metallurgical analysis by Himalayan Bowls and Oxford University has discovered that the bowls are made from "high tin bronze," also known as "bell metal bronze," which is a pure mixture of copper and tin. Contrary to popular folklore, there is no evidence to support the claims that singing bowls contain "7 metals" (Joseph Feinstein, 2011). This seems to dispute even the idea of 5-metal bowls. As for your pendok, it may indeed be suasa if it has a gold look and does not tarnish. Again, not 5 metals, but 3. I have never hear of any 5-metal mixtures being used on pendoks, but maybe someone else has more info. The photo of the statue is fairly useless in this conversation since the true color of the mixed metals here are unknown. Color shifts dependent upon light in which it is shot and white balance used. Also colors shift from one computer screen to another. Telling us that your pendok looks like the metal in this statue does not bring us any closer to determining the materials that your pendok have been made of. It probably looks different on my screen than on yours. You would have to have it tested to know anything definite.

9th November 2011, 03:50 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	I've got a pendok that is on an old Solo keris that is made from a metal that is the colour of copper, but it has never tarnished like copper. It is definitely not suasa, I have no idea what it is. I've had it about 45 years. The keris that goes with this keris has some kinatah work that I thought was brass when I bought it, but it also never tarnished, and is not gold.