Chinese fakes

ariel · 19th July 2005, 12:57 PM

We mention them from time to time with derision, and most of them richly deserve it.
But look at this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

(The auction is over)
It is heads and shoulders better than the usual "Japanense eximious cowskin housecarl famous general with rosewood vagina"
Of course, it is not even close to resembling a katana (more like an upside down Kubikuri), but it is carefully executed.
Well, another couple of years and they will sell Masamunes and Sukesadas indistinguishable from the originals. After that they'll turn to Kilijes, Yataghans, Shamshirs (with Assadullah's signatures), and anythig else potentially highly sought. Then we will be in a pickle....

Tim Simmons · 19th July 2005, 01:04 PM

The general sounds rather fun

nechesh · 20th July 2005, 12:07 AM

I don't know Ariel, sometimes a nice "pickle" goes well on the side.

Really, i know nothing about such weapons (though even i wouldn't refer to this one as a katana), but if i did i suppose i would know enough to spot the inaccuracies in this auction. It does, however, appear to be a well made piece of metal. Can't say i would mind owning it.

It's a pretty pickle.
For me it comes down to, is it worth $211.00. I think it probably is. So the bottom line as always is that a wise collector is a knowledgable collector (or visa versa) and by all means, let the buyer beware.
BTW, can any of you knowledgable Japanese sword collectors tell me if that is a true hamon line or not.

Andrew · 20th July 2005, 01:50 AM

That "hamon" looks acid-etched to me, nechesh.

Rivkin · 20th July 2005, 03:44 AM

what is it, some naginata ? Hamon is nice, but flat with no activity whatsoever - most likely acid.

Rick · 20th July 2005, 04:17 AM

Looks like a field hockey stick .

M ELEY · 20th July 2005, 06:03 AM

Ariel, you bring up my worst fears for the future to come! As a self-professed bargain-hunter and eBayer, it is sometimes very irritating to guess from a half-out of focus pic if you are getting a steal or getting robbed. The frustration of passing up on an item because you can't hold it in your hand! We're seeing this not only with Japanese weapons, but American "Confederate" items as well. Many of the fakes, with a little aging and fake patina, are hard to tell. To add confusion to the whole thing, then there are real weapons out there, but grossly misidentified. Many Spanish colonial swords look like Confederate D-guards, many Philippine bolos likewise. It has gotten to the point for me where I won't even look at the Japanese/Chinese/Tibetan stuff on eBay anymore...sigh.

Battara · 20th July 2005, 11:18 PM

This is no more traditional Japanese than I am.

There has been talk about these really good Chinese fakes now beginning to come out of the country on the nihonto section of Sword Forum .com. I agree with Andrew - acid etch hamon, all over the place. Nice piece of junk, but still piece of junk never the less. My rule of thumb - If it says "china" as an origin, run away.

ariel · 20th July 2005, 11:58 PM

Battara,
I could not agree more: any antique sword coming from China or Hong Kong, or "shipped from China", or having any hint of connection with China,- should not be touched with a 10 foot pole!!
My point is, that no matter how junky (and it IS junky!), this "katana" represents a quantum leap in craftsmanship over the awfully junky stuff we are accustomed to see on e-bay.
This is a bad omen: the buggers in Nanjing have learned new tricks and are getting more professional.
It is just like finding that a usually docile and antibiotic-sensitive bug suddenly became resistant to penicillin. It is not yet a real problem, because there are many more, and more active antibiotics, but... it is inevitable that the bug will mutate further and further and suddenly we will have no drug against him. The Black Plague all over again....

Andrew · 21st July 2005, 12:13 AM

MRSA swords!

I joke, Ariel, but I agree completely.

Rick · 21st July 2005, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

MRSA swords!

I joke, Ariel, but I agree completely.

MRSA !?!
No comprende .

I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more fakes coming out of the former CCCP also .

Does anyone have a timetable for Chinese fake sword world domination ?

Seriously though , I for one am amazed at some of the Philippine/Indo stuff that seems to get snapped up for ridiculous prices as so called Civil War Bowies on ebay .

ariel · 21st July 2005, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

MRSA swords!

I joke, Ariel, but I agree completely.

LOVE IT!

19th July 2005, 12:57 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Chinese fakes We mention them from time to time with derision, and most of them richly deserve it. But look at this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT (The auction is over) It is heads and shoulders better than the usual "Japanense eximious cowskin housecarl famous general with rosewood vagina" Of course, it is not even close to resembling a katana (more like an upside down Kubikuri), but it is carefully executed. Well, another couple of years and they will sell Masamunes and Sukesadas indistinguishable from the originals. After that they'll turn to Kilijes, Yataghans, Shamshirs (with Assadullah's signatures), and anythig else potentially highly sought. Then we will be in a pickle....

19th July 2005, 01:04 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The general sounds rather fun

20th July 2005, 12:07 AM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I don't know Ariel, sometimes a nice "pickle" goes well on the side. Really, i know nothing about such weapons (though even i wouldn't refer to this one as a katana), but if i did i suppose i would know enough to spot the inaccuracies in this auction. It does, however, appear to be a well made piece of metal. Can't say i would mind owning it. It's a pretty pickle. For me it comes down to, is it worth $211.00. I think it probably is. So the bottom line as always is that a wise collector is a knowledgable collector (or visa versa) and by all means, let the buyer beware. BTW, can any of you knowledgable Japanese sword collectors tell me if that is a true hamon line or not.

20th July 2005, 01:50 AM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	That "hamon" looks acid-etched to me, nechesh.

20th July 2005, 03:44 AM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	what is it, some naginata ? Hamon is nice, but flat with no activity whatsoever - most likely acid.

20th July 2005, 04:17 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Looks like a field hockey stick .

20th July 2005, 06:03 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Ariel, you bring up my worst fears for the future to come! As a self-professed bargain-hunter and eBayer, it is sometimes very irritating to guess from a half-out of focus pic if you are getting a steal or getting robbed. The frustration of passing up on an item because you can't hold it in your hand! We're seeing this not only with Japanese weapons, but American "Confederate" items as well. Many of the fakes, with a little aging and fake patina, are hard to tell. To add confusion to the whole thing, then there are real weapons out there, but grossly misidentified. Many Spanish colonial swords look like Confederate D-guards, many Philippine bolos likewise. It has gotten to the point for me where I won't even look at the Japanese/Chinese/Tibetan stuff on eBay anymore...sigh.

20th July 2005, 11:18 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	This is no more traditional Japanese than I am. There has been talk about these really good Chinese fakes now beginning to come out of the country on the nihonto section of Sword Forum .com. I agree with Andrew - acid etch hamon, all over the place. Nice piece of junk, but still piece of junk never the less. My rule of thumb - If it says "china" as an origin, run away.

20th July 2005, 11:58 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Battara, I could not agree more: any antique sword coming from China or Hong Kong, or "shipped from China", or having any hint of connection with China,- should not be touched with a 10 foot pole!! My point is, that no matter how junky (and it IS junky!), this "katana" represents a quantum leap in craftsmanship over the awfully junky stuff we are accustomed to see on e-bay. This is a bad omen: the buggers in Nanjing have learned new tricks and are getting more professional. It is just like finding that a usually docile and antibiotic-sensitive bug suddenly became resistant to penicillin. It is not yet a real problem, because there are many more, and more active antibiotics, but... it is inevitable that the bug will mutate further and further and suddenly we will have no drug against him. The Black Plague all over again....

21st July 2005, 12:13 AM	#10
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	MRSA swords! I joke, Ariel, but I agree completely.