Indian Swords with downward curving blades

[Miguel]

Hi Everyone,
I would welcome your comments and if possible the correct Indian names for these weapons. It is possible that they may be Nepalese but I think that they are Indian swords with a blade style adopted from the Gurkhas, I find it strange that the Indians who have given names to all their weapons have not given these weapons a particular name which leads me to think that they also used the name Kukri. I think that the decorated item was made for Religious or Ceremonial occasions or for the Tourist trade. The plain item is a fighting weapon and has a blade stamp which I am also hoping someone may be able to translate. The overall length of the plain one is 22 ins with a blade length of 16.5 ins and width of 1.5 ins, the dimensions of the decorated one are overall length 20.25 ins, blade length 16 ins and width 3.5 ins. Thanking you in advance.
Miguel

[Emanuel]

Here is some information on this type of khukri:
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9718

Your top one is indeed for the tourist trade, albeit the early-20th century variety, so it's still old.

The bottom one looks more like the fighting kind.

Emanuel

[ariel]

Isn't the lower one a Sossun Pata?

[Emanuel]

Semantics, but no.
It has a cho/kaudi, so it's a khukri

Here are more:
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.p...36&postcount=9

[Jim McDougall]

Well put Emanuel, and as noted, the choil (a distinct kukri feature) as well as the wider (kopis type) profile place this more in the kukri range.
The sosun pattah is characterized by the recurve and inside cutting edge, but not with this type blade. As always, these classifications become quite vague as these variations occur in diffusion of forms.

It seems to me that in the Bengal regions nearer to Nepal, such variations occur with kora hilted with the Indo-Persian hilt (as here) and much stouter, heavier blade more like a ram dao. These often have the eye or decoration near blade tip, and I have understood these to have been used as a sacrificial weapon with doves. The one I had still had vestiges of the red paint apparently applied to augment symbolic details of the blade.

I would consider that this kukri like version may have perhaps also been used in that manner but not necessarily for doves as in Bengal.
I am curious on the deep stamp at blade center, and what script or language might be in it. It resembles the deep stamps often seen on early tulwar blades in the Northwest regions of India, such as with trisula or stamps in Urdu.

The first example with the brass pavilion theme decoration does seem like it was in a discussion years ago (besides the thread you linked) and the production of souvenier items for British forces was noted. It seems to me that this cottage industry pretty much evolved after Omdurman in the Anglo Egyptian Sudan occupation, at least in notable subsidized production of these 'souveniers'.

[Battara]

.....and besides the sossoun pata is a lot longer, the blade basically being not just sword length, but also usually the size and shape of the Ottoman yataghan.

Another thought is that some of the early kukris were much larger than most of the ones we see today.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Print from 1820 showing quite clearly some weapons.
Regards,
Norman.


This coloured aquatint was made by Robert Havell and Son from plate 13 of JB Fraser's 'Views in the Himala Mountains'.
Fraser's brother William was a political agent to Major-General Martindell during the Nepal campaigns of 1814-15, when the Gurkha Empire was about the size of Great Britain and was unified for the first time in its history. James Fraser accompanied him at that time, commenting that the men of the Nepalese army "had much of the true and high spirit of a soldier", admiring the Gurkhas' sturdiness, strength and courage. As the war progressed, Gurkhas who capitulated were received into British service, joining William's detachment, which became known as Fraser's Irregulars. At the end of the war Gurkha regiments were incorporated into both the Indian and British armies and William was considered one of the founders of these regiments.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Baillie_Fraser

[Miguel]

Hi Norman,

Thank you for a most interesting image showing the Himalayas as the backdrop to the assembled warriors and for the link which proved fascinating reading. What I found interesting about the pile of weapons and on the assembled warriors was the lack of Kukris but there were plenty of what I think were Koras, most interesting.
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hi Norman,

Thank you for a most interesting image showing the Himalayas as the backdrop to the assembled warriors and for the link which proved fascinating reading. What I found interesting about the pile of weapons and on the assembled warriors was the lack of Kukris but there were plenty of what I think were Koras, most interesting.
Miguel

Sorry Norman, Please ignore my comment about lack of Kukris, I have just noticed piles of them underneath the Koras, I am afraid that my vision is not what it used to be.
My apologies.
Miguel