Publishing the Forum

[Emanuel]

Hello,
After the recent discussions regarding authors and publishing in this field of study, I came to wonder whether information specifically uncovered or originally discussed on this forum has ever been published in hard-copies. This forum and the wonderful groups of people responsible for it have been a treasure of knowledge since the forum's conception. I understand there are Gigs worth of information in the archives, impractical to print them all, but could some of the stronger conclusions be published at some point? It seems to me that such an endeavour would greatly complement many of the existent literature on ethnographic edged weapons. I understand there are many complicated issues such as authorship and copyright, but perhaps some of the discussions could be published as collections of essays or some such format?
What better peer-review board than a group of people that spans the whole world, has access to most countries and their cultural institutions and comprises all age cohorts?

Regards,
Emanuel

[Tim Simmons]

That thought had passed my mind. Small books? East African Spears? Agree a coloured card background for pictures. All you need is a coordinator and the money, then what of the proceeds????? If any

[katana]

Good Idea, would need some organising.

I wondered about a weekly/bi-weekly feature, where a particular type of weapon or a geographical area where edged weapons originate is discussed. Posting examples, info, and questions. What do others think?

[Rick]

Well , posts are considered as copyrighted by their authors so permission would have to be gained from all members past and present who's posts were utilised .

The collation would be a nightmare .

The publication would most likely receive a thorough savaging from some
quarters .

A subject of the week ; possibly in a sub forum ; in the main forum it would stifle general discussion of many disparate weapon forms .

[Jim McDougall]

Well said Rick.
Emanuel, this idea has come up many times over the years, and many of the threads included outstanding research, ideas and observations that brought about some great perspective on collected weapons. There was one monster thread on a Dutch naval (VOC) sword that went on for years!!!! Anybody remember Mikey and Shaver Kool !!! Auughhh!!!!
Although much of the material here is extremely informative, trying to encapsulate lengthy discussions would be horribly difficult. We always recommend that students of these edged weapons doing research or just trying to learn about a new acquisition simply use the search resource, or simply post. We never get tired of topics and always want to get those lurking to post....bring on the questions!!!

All the best,
Jim

[wolviex]

Copyright is one thing. Another is to make such publish reliable, unitl you want make something for only small group of people. You should have science editor who should check all the informations to prove the author wasn't gone wrong. Please remember, we all have knowledge from very different sources. Some of them are from know or less known books, and aren't forum members authorship, but some of them are our and only our conclusions - there is a need to differ between those two and make appropriate notes. So I think that publish something from the Forum as it is, is quite impossible and dangerous for our reputation - don't get me wrong! Until we talk here everything is ok, but when you publish something even smallest error will be noticed and enhanced against us by critics.
But it would be good to gather us around some small periodic and publish some materials written as separate works by our members. Not forum texts but brand new written by exact members. Of course there is need of money, editors... etc, too, but then every author takes his responsibility for what is written, then would be a possibility to present systematic works, etc.
So the idea is brilliant but I would prefer to find other way then just gather internet texts.

In my case I used some of the thoughts from this forum on wider audience. I used mostly overall thoughts (many from know books I don't have, but quoted here) and only some of the individual conclusions, but I sent the emails to everybody involved with request of permission to do that. If someone wanted to stay in the shadow, I respected his decision.

And to be truth, I download some of the threads and I'm often returning to them refreshing my knowledge. I found this great forum very helpful so far and I always appreciate your comittment especially on my items especially when some of the informations are just unreachable for me. So let's work further and more!!!

Best
Michal

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well said Rick.
Emanuel, this idea has come up many times over the years, and many of the threads included outstanding research, ideas and observations that brought about some great perspective on collected weapons. There was one monster thread on a Dutch naval (VOC) sword that went on for years!!!! Anybody remember Mikey and Shaver Kool !!! Auughhh!!!!
Although much of the material here is extremely informative, trying to encapsulate lengthy discussions would be horribly difficult. We always recommend that students of these edged weapons doing research or just trying to learn about a new acquisition simply use the search resource, or simply post. We never get tired of topics and always want to get those lurking to post....bring on the questions!!!

All the best,
Jim

Shaver Cool Jim !?!
"Slowly I turned ....... "
Man , that one would just not go away .


Fellas , let's dump the idea of subforums ; as has already been stated they dilute rather than strengthen the discourse here .

As for publishing ; well it's not free ; it takes $$$$ .
Who's going to come up with that ; who's going to be the accountant and bookeeper , publisher , distributer and on ad infinitum ?

I think "mo' bettah" someone who wants to make a hard copy of info from here do all the work and finance it himself .
We are blessed to have this website that is of no cost to any member ; we are never solicited for funds.

Vikingsword is not a business by any stretch of the imagination nor does it want to be .

[S.Al-Anizi]

Originally Posted by katana

Good Idea, would need some organising.

I wondered about a weekly/bi-weekly feature, where a particular type of weapon or a geographical area where edged weapons originate is discussed. Posting examples, info, and questions. What do others think?

I would also support this idea, we could weekly discuss a new kind of weapon of a different culture and ethnic background, and this way, we forum members could enrich ourselves with knowledge on most weapons outside each of our interests.

[Tim Simmons]

Sub groups on the forum is not publishing. I think Sub groups narrow the learning process. Other forums have that.

[wolviex]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Sub groups on the forum is not publishing. I think Sub groups narrow the learning process. Other forums have that.

I second that emotion. When this new board was created admins asked question about spliting that forum on few different groups, and the decision was against it.

[Tim Simmons]

Slow down, I was was thinking something less bombastic more of simple catalogs with good but not necessarily all the argument, just the known facts, challenging ideas can be hinted at. Collation could be on agreement and contributing photos to an agreed format. If people are really worried about copyright why bother being a member of this forum, or is my world too simple?

[Alam Shah]

Maybe, Group Membership could be introduced. These can be broken down by different interest groups.

I assume that this forum software does support group membership. The Special Interest Groups could work together towards an objective set within the group.

For membership forum member need to be apply or recommend by another member. Published works could be accomplished within the forum topics of the special interest group. Just a thought.

[S.Al-Anizi]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Maybe, Group Membership could be introduced. These can be broken down by different interest groups.

I assume that this forum software does support group membership. The Special Interest Groups could work together towards an objective set within the group.

For membership forum member need to be apply or recommend by another member. Published works could be accomplished within the forum topics of the special interest group. Just a thought.

I second that thought, something like the "Thai Weaponry group", "Arab Weaponry group", "Turkish Weaponry Group", "Japanese Weaponry Group", giving certain, well known members these traits and organising them into specialist groups by the site admin, and that way, more professional and specific descriptions and identifications can be made, while still these people would participate within discussions outside thier circle with no problem. Of course, mods and admin should also join such groups if any of them feels he has a certain field he's experienced with.

[Andrew]

Hi Guys. It really comes down to what our needs are.

Multiple sub-fora are helpful (even necessary) on boards with large, diverse active posting memberships. Without them, you get so many discussions going in a single forum that the topics rotate off the first page faster than they can be read, and too many different topics to allow for easy, enjoyable reading.

This forum doesn't have the traffic necessary to justify multiple subfora. That day may come, but until then splitting up the discussions would have an undesired effect: I like being able to easily read threads about all different types of Ethnographic Arms and Armour.

After all, this forum's general topic is already specialized and represents a sub-group in the larger grouping of Arms and Armour.

[S.Al-Anizi]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Hi Guys. It really comes down to what our needs are.

Multiple sub-fora are helpful (even necessary) on boards with large, diverse active posting memberships. Without them, you get so many discussions going in a single forum that the topics rotate off the first page faster than they can be read, and too many different topics to allow for easy, enjoyable reading.

This forum doesn't have the traffic necessary to justify multiple subfora. That day may come, but until then splitting up the discussions would have an undesired effect: I like being able to easily read threads about all different types of Ethnographic Arms and Armour.

After all, this forum's general topic is already specialized and represents a sub-group in the larger grouping of Arms and Armour.

Andrew, how about just creating one, non-academic pub. We currently have a few non weapon relaeted threads in the ethno-weapons forum which are off topic, but still, its fun to have these threads once in a while, and we do get them.

[Mark]

Copyright: As Rick said, the individual poster holds the copyright on what they each write. On the other hand, there is an overall copyright held by Vikingsword (AKA Lee Jones) on the overall forum in terms of its format and presentation.

Sub-forums: 'Nuff said.

Proceedings: A great idea. Artzi collated and distributed the papers presented at (I think) the second seminar, but it hasn't been done since because no one has had the time or resources to record "minutes." One thing we could do in the future is ask that each presenter provide at least a lengthy abstract of their talk, and preferably a paper, which we can publish here or to which we can at least link if the author wishes to host it elsewhere.

Publication in general: I see a need in the field for a collector-oriented publication on ethnographic arms and armor. I think that there is enough interest internationally for such a thing, and abundant author resources (perhaps for a quarterly publication). In fact, I would say that there is enough "backlog" just from what people have written here that several issues could be filled if people went back and put their postings into a more formal format. BUT, it is a huge commitment of time and energy even if it is to be published for free on-line. Personally, though I do write for a living (lawyers live by the written word, you know ), I have no formal editorial or publishing experience and so wouldn't really know where to begin on a magazine. I think it is something we should continue discussing and brainstorming about, though, since I would love to see it happen.

Shaver Cool: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000140.html (then there was "Son of Cool:" http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002059.html, and "Who's Afraid of Shaver Cool?:" http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002059.html). The photos all seem to be gone, though.

[Emanuel]

Rick,
By forum I meant the framework that permits people to post their opinions and discussions, and the written words themselves. I wondered how the information gathered/posted on this forum was regarded legally and how it was/could be used, and you answered my questions.

I understand the concern of some members having their thoughts presented by others before them, and that is also why I started this thread. I fully appreciate the privilege we have of accessing the information on this forum free of cost or membership. I've been exposed to a world I knew only in fantasy and history, and for that I am grateful
I simply wanted to know if the information on this forum had ever been published on paper under the cover of Vikingsword or EEWRS and if there was any interest to do so. I now realise the many problems with such an idea and the futility of it.
So the Ethnographic Arms and Armour Forum is just an extended conversation between friends and it wishes to stay that way

All the best,
Emanuel

[Rivkin]

I am glad to hear the reaction to "proceedings idea" (I think it is repeatedly surfaces here).

First of all, publishing proceedings of once a year conference should be a very small job to do. You post submissions standards (accepted file formats, references, margins etc.), since our conference has only _invited_ talks it is not nessesary to peer review the submission, all is needed is a small editorial review, mostly technical in nature, lumping the submissions together and publishing them online. The editor will also be responsible for "reminding" the authors concerning sumbission deadlines etc.

I think that because we don't have an edged weapons journal, proceedings of this conference would be met with enthusiasm.

One more thing - there is such system as germanic publication model, where there are no referees, but each journal is a journal of certain society. Full fledge members of the society have the right to submit papers, both their own and of other people, with "... submitted by such and such" printed on the paper. This substitutes anonymous review process by a more personal interaction between the submitter and de-facto reviewer.

Concerning errors - a lot of Einstein's papers are highly erroneous. This gave him some troubles when he was young, but now - no one remembers these papers, only the ones that were right survived years of scrutiny.
In our community I think it should be the same - erroneous and weak papers will be forgotten, after may be a few angry debates here and there, but the interesting stuff shall preservere.

[Mark]

There is also the "letter/report/article" system used in some scientific journals (such as Science and Nature). "Letters" are pretty much published as-is, assuming they get past the threshold interest test of the editors; "reports" are published with only an editorial and internal review, but not outside peer reviewing; "research articles" go through the whole peer-reviewing process.

It is a way to get info out fast, basically, while at the same time conveying to the reader the degree of definativeness of the content.

Originally Posted by Rivkin

First of all, publishing proceedings of once a year conference should be a very small job to do. You post submissions standards (accepted file formats, references, margins etc.), since our conference has only _invited_ talks it is not nessesary to peer review the submission, all is needed is a small editorial review, mostly technical in nature, lumping the submissions together and publishing them online. The editor will also be responsible for "reminding" the authors concerning sumbission deadlines etc.

This is pretty much the way I would handle it. I am the (so far) one-man committee for the speakers at the next seminar, and I am planning to float this among the invitees as an idea. There needs to be discussion first about what to do with them once they are in hand, of course. Stay tuned ...

[Tim Simmons]

This is all talk, I am a doer, I make things for my living. I cannot see why members cannot be invited to contribute pictures and knowledge to some kind of catalog. Obviously it would initially have to be electronic, I say am I with it Collectively we could produce some informative and impressive lists.