Two West(?) Javaneses Keris with Sumatra style hilt

Athanase · 17th July 2021, 02:37 PM

Hello,

I recently acquired these two Keris which intrigue me a lot because their grip is very close to that of the Keris hilt from South Sumatra.
However, the base of these handles is typically Javanese.

The two Keris come from two different collections.
In both cases there is unfortunately no Mendak.
What type of Mendak would be the most suitable?

Jean · 17th July 2021, 06:29 PM

IMO these 2 hilts are indeed in burung style from South Sumatra, while the scabbards are rather from NW Java (just in front from each other). And the blades....
Regards

Athanase · 17th July 2021, 07:45 PM

Yes there is nothing exceptional about the blades ... one was probably beautiful in her youth, but is now just a ghost. The other is really very basic and still covered in rust.

I do not remember having seen identical handles mounted on Sumatran Keris (where the blade and the scabbard are typical of sumatra).
The Burung handles that I am used to seeing from South Sumatra usually have a sort of "ruff collar" at their base, just above the Selut (see the picture of hilt from Detlef collection).

Gustav · 17th July 2021, 08:54 PM

It is sometimes almost impossible to distinguish between S Sumatran and NW Javanese Keris indeed, if we are looking for older specimens. There are at least a couple of sheath and hilt forms from W Java, which are old ones, seldom seen, and not (videly) published (and mistaken for S Sumatra, E Java or even Bali forms).

The origin of the hilts presented (in #1) can also be W Java.

Jean · 17th July 2021, 09:06 PM

Athanase, the hilt which you just showed is a different animal from South Sumatra, a Jawa demam type and not burung, I will attach the pics of the 2 types for comparison.

Jean · 17th July 2021, 09:12 PM

Pics of the 2 types of hilts, both from South Sumatra IMO but I may be wrong?
Regards

Gustav · 17th July 2021, 09:20 PM

Do the atribution to Lampung for the hilts from #1 go back to Jensen, or was this done already before him?

One from Tradescant collection has an european (?) replacement instead of Mendak, the Nr. 2884 from Dresden, which perhaps also goes back to 17th cent., has a Javanese Mendak.

17th July 2021, 07:45 PM	#3
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Yes there is nothing exceptional about the blades ... one was probably beautiful in her youth, but is now just a ghost. The other is really very basic and still covered in rust. I do not remember having seen identical handles mounted on Sumatran Keris (where the blade and the scabbard are typical of sumatra). The Burung handles that I am used to seeing from South Sumatra usually have a sort of "ruff collar" at their base, just above the Selut (see the picture of hilt from Detlef collection). Attached Images

17th July 2021, 08:54 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	It is sometimes almost impossible to distinguish between S Sumatran and NW Javanese Keris indeed, if we are looking for older specimens. There are at least a couple of sheath and hilt forms from W Java, which are old ones, seldom seen, and not (videly) published (and mistaken for S Sumatra, E Java or even Bali forms). The origin of the hilts presented (in #1) can also be W Java. Last edited by Gustav; 17th July 2021 at 09:10 PM. Reason: (#1)

17th July 2021, 09:12 PM	#6
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Pics of the 2 types of hilts, both from South Sumatra IMO but I may be wrong? Regards Attached Images

17th July 2021, 02:37 PM	#1
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Two West(?) Javaneses Keris with Sumatra style hilt Hello, I recently acquired these two Keris which intrigue me a lot because their grip is very close to that of the Keris hilt from South Sumatra. However, the base of these handles is typically Javanese. The two Keris come from two different collections. In both cases there is unfortunately no Mendak. What type of Mendak would be the most suitable? Attached Images

17th July 2021, 06:29 PM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	IMO these 2 hilts are indeed in burung style from South Sumatra, while the scabbards are rather from NW Java (just in front from each other). And the blades.... Regards

17th July 2021, 09:06 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Athanase, the hilt which you just showed is a different animal from South Sumatra, a Jawa demam type and not burung, I will attach the pics of the 2 types for comparison.

17th July 2021, 09:20 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Do the atribution to Lampung for the hilts from #1 go back to Jensen, or was this done already before him? One from Tradescant collection has an european (?) replacement instead of Mendak, the Nr. 2884 from Dresden, which perhaps also goes back to 17th cent., has a Javanese Mendak.