blade mystery

urbanspaceman · 10th August 2021, 08:04 PM

Hello Folks.
Here is a simple question:
was Solingen producing and exporting to England such a blade as this in the early 1500s?
Further details will depend on the answer.
Thanks in anticipation... Keith.

mariusgmioc · 12th August 2021, 09:55 AM

Yes they were!

Solingen blades were traded since the Viking times.

In the 15th century Solingen has raised to a fortified city becoming one of the largest (if not THE largest) blades manufacturing centres in Europe.

Its blades were traded not only in Europe but throughout Middle East, Asia and North Africa.

urbanspaceman · 12th August 2021, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Hello Folks.
Here is a simple question:
was Solingen producing and exporting to England SUCH A BLADE AS THIS in the early 1500s?
Further details will depend on the answer.
Thanks in anticipation... Keith.

The blade is from a Hounslow Hanger and is date-stamped 1553 which obviously must be a commemorative unless it was in existence 100 years earlier and was subsequently re-hilted a century later; this is what I am attempting to ascertain, hence my question.

1553 was the date of the Lady Jane Grey tragedy when her father-in-law (Dudley: Earl of Northumberland) manipulated her onto the throne after the death of Edward. She reigned for 9 days then was executed by her cousin Mary who took the throne. The father-in-law and his son – her husband – were also executed. She was only 16.

It is possible that the owner of the sword was related to the Dudley or Grey family and wanted to commemorate the issue when he ordered the sword in the 1630s.

urbanspaceman · 12th August 2021, 11:52 AM

Here is the entire sword image:

Jim McDougall · 12th August 2021, 10:36 PM

While not the exact fuller pattern, I found a similar blade in "European & American Arms 1100-1850" Claude Blair, 1962....#169, it has a blocked area at ricasso section in which I cannot see mark etc. However, it is inscribed ME FECIT HOUNSLO and dated c. 1640s.

Another 'cuttoe' in Blair (op.cit.#165) with a fullered blade of this type with sawback (as in Hounslow blades c.1640s) and latten running wolf.

What is important in this sword posted is that the configuration of the latten running wolf is upside down consistent with German placement of this mark. It is known that Solingen blades were being imported into Hounslow with this mark, then often inscribed with Hounslow, makers names of Hounslow, or possibly other inscriptions.

The 'ANNO' term in references suggests of course the year of the blade, such as 'ANNO cross 1660' (Wagner, "Cut & Thrust Weapons", 1967).

"Catalogue of the Sword Collection at York Castle Museum" , P.Newman, 1985, in sword CA778, the maker JOHANNES STAM ANNO 1612
CA730 has Wundes kingshead, wolf between 'magic numbers 1399'.

Therefore it seems pretty compelling that this blade was from Solingen and marked with the running wolf as was the practice c.1630-40s. When in Hounslow, the blades were often inscribed, but many not.
Hounslow was essentially Royalist in times of the Civil War, so the 1553 theory as an ancestral number seems plausible, but the ANNO unusual as a commemorative without further detail.
'Magic numbers' would seem to be placed with the wolf mark.

These blades were often remounted in the 18th century, and many hilts of the 'Hounslow school' were silver and had hallmarks c, 1750s which supports this.

urbanspaceman · 12th August 2021, 10:52 PM

Thank-you Jim, great research as always.

The latten wolf has cropped-up on Hounslow blades a few times for me; once with a curious X marking and a shield as well (see pics) which I only just missed acquiring.

The mushroom cap and scrolled quillon is typical Hounslow as well so all-in-all my inclination is it is homogeneous, except possibly the grip binding - but I can't be sure.
I sent pics to Dirk and he proclaimed it homogeneous.

Year 1553 can only be commemorating the Lady Jane Grey/Guildford Dudley tragedy but the family lines went everywhere during the following century so no chance of tracking down the owner that way.

One thing I would like to know is who used this very singular wolf latten which is common on Hounslow blades?

urbanspaceman · 12th August 2021, 11:01 PM

Sorry, should have included the image of the shield; here it is:

12th August 2021, 11:52 AM	#4
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 532	PS Here is the entire sword image: Attached Images

12th August 2021, 10:52 PM	#6
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 532	Hounslow Thank-you Jim, great research as always. The latten wolf has cropped-up on Hounslow blades a few times for me; once with a curious X marking and a shield as well (see pics) which I only just missed acquiring. The mushroom cap and scrolled quillon is typical Hounslow as well so all-in-all my inclination is it is homogeneous, except possibly the grip binding - but I can't be sure. I sent pics to Dirk and he proclaimed it homogeneous. Year 1553 can only be commemorating the Lady Jane Grey/Guildford Dudley tragedy but the family lines went everywhere during the following century so no chance of tracking down the owner that way. One thing I would like to know is who used this very singular wolf latten which is common on Hounslow blades? Attached Images

12th August 2021, 11:01 PM	#7
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 532	ps Sorry, should have included the image of the shield; here it is: Attached Images

10th August 2021, 08:04 PM	#1
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 532	blade mystery Hello Folks. Here is a simple question: was Solingen producing and exporting to England such a blade as this in the early 1500s? Further details will depend on the answer. Thanks in anticipation... Keith. Attached Images

12th August 2021, 09:55 AM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Yes they were! Solingen blades were traded since the Viking times. In the 15th century Solingen has raised to a fortified city becoming one of the largest (if not THE largest) blades manufacturing centres in Europe. Its blades were traded not only in Europe but throughout Middle East, Asia and North Africa.

12th August 2021, 10:36 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	While not the exact fuller pattern, I found a similar blade in "European & American Arms 1100-1850" Claude Blair, 1962....#169, it has a blocked area at ricasso section in which I cannot see mark etc. However, it is inscribed ME FECIT HOUNSLO and dated c. 1640s. Another 'cuttoe' in Blair (op.cit.#165) with a fullered blade of this type with sawback (as in Hounslow blades c.1640s) and latten running wolf. What is important in this sword posted is that the configuration of the latten running wolf is upside down consistent with German placement of this mark. It is known that Solingen blades were being imported into Hounslow with this mark, then often inscribed with Hounslow, makers names of Hounslow, or possibly other inscriptions. The 'ANNO' term in references suggests of course the year of the blade, such as 'ANNO cross 1660' (Wagner, "Cut & Thrust Weapons", 1967). "Catalogue of the Sword Collection at York Castle Museum" , P.Newman, 1985, in sword CA778, the maker JOHANNES STAM ANNO 1612 CA730 has Wundes kingshead, wolf between 'magic numbers 1399'. Therefore it seems pretty compelling that this blade was from Solingen and marked with the running wolf as was the practice c.1630-40s. When in Hounslow, the blades were often inscribed, but many not. Hounslow was essentially Royalist in times of the Civil War, so the 1553 theory as an ancestral number seems plausible, but the ANNO unusual as a commemorative without further detail. 'Magic numbers' would seem to be placed with the wolf mark. These blades were often remounted in the 18th century, and many hilts of the 'Hounslow school' were silver and had hallmarks c, 1750s which supports this.