Keris lurus/sepokal Bugis for comment

jagabuwana · 13th June 2018, 01:21 PM

Hi all,

I won this keris in an auction (previous discussion in this thread, which was locked due to me breaking some rules - oops).

Based off contributions in the other thread, it is a Bugis sepokal/sapukala keris.

Here are some more detailed photos now that it's been delivered.

1) There is some kind of crater-like relief or depression clearly visible in the first photo. I doubt it's pedjetan, probably a defect or damage.

2) Significant corrosion towards the tip

3) Evidence of pamor?

4) Not a very pronounced sirah cecak, and quite a uniform gonjo until the buntut. The pesi is a little twisted at the end, but looks more exaggerated in the photo. Not sure if the oxidation where the pesi meets the gonjo is evidence of mechanically fixing the pesi to it, or something else. I tried to scrape bits off and bits of some fibrous matter seemed to come off with it, which definitely didn't seem like corroded steel but perhaps wood or cloth.

kai · 16th June 2018, 04:17 PM

Hello Novan,

Congrats for acquiring your first Bugis blade - mind you, they tend to be addictive, too!

Quote:

1) There is some kind of crater-like relief or depression clearly visible in the first photo. I doubt it's pedjetan, probably a defect or damage.

It might well be a defect from forging (i. e. missing layer of pamor) - this should be possible to verify once the pamor structure becomes clearly visible upon cleaning.

Quote:

2) Significant corrosion towards the tip

Looks like there's still enough metal to keep it as is. Of course, another option would be to re-profile the blade tip. Not something to decide now - clean it first...

Quote:

3) Evidence of pamor?

Pamor is obvious from the layered structure. The amount of possible contrast would only be visible after staining; however, many Bugis collectors nowadays prefer to only utilize weak organic acids like vinegar or fruit juices (despite historic evidence of warangan having been applied to at least some Bugis-style blades (IMHO quite likely for those with complex pamor). You'll probably be able to see some inadvertent staining during any gentle cleaning process.

Quote:

4) Not sure if the oxidation where the pesi meets the gonjo is evidence of mechanically fixing the pesi to it, or something else. I tried to scrape bits off and bits of some fibrous matter seemed to come off with it, which definitely didn't seem like corroded steel but perhaps wood or cloth.

Quite possible that these are textile remnants of an earlier pressure fit buried into the rust. You'll need to clean the blade thoroughly before being able to study the pesi-gonjo fit in any depth, I guess.

Ergo, 4 votes for gentle cleaning!

Regards,
Kai

jagabuwana · 17th June 2018, 10:58 AM

Thanks Kai! Definitely addictive. I spend a lot of my time searching for dressings online, though it seems very hard to find a sheath and wrangka. Understandably so.

Apart from arsenic being difficult to obtain outside of Indo, is there another reason why collectors of Bugis keris forego it?

David · 17th June 2018, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

Apart from arsenic being difficult to obtain outside of Indo, is there another reason why collectors of Bugis keris forego it?

I do believe it is fair to say that the currently accepted method of care for Bugis keris in general does not include warangan treatment. And we must, of course, carefully define here what we mean exactly when we say "Bugis" keris because we find Bugis style keris all over the archipelago since they were seafaring traders who set up communities in many parts of that area. However, i believe we have shown evidence that areas where today most collectors will claim no warangan has ever been used in maintaining keris did indeed use it to some extent. Perhaps not across the board, but that does not mean not at all. You can find an interesting discussion on this on this thread where some evidence from as early as 1839 has been presented that warangan was used th the Straits of Malacca area at one time. I can't really say if that was on Bugis keris, but it is certainly an area where today many collectors will insist that warangan has never been used. So this is not really a matter of absolutes i think.
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...warangan+bugis
As for these modern times, it seems that the general practice is just to clean keris with lime and not to stain the blades. Though i do own a bugis blade from Sulawesi that, as far as i know, had never left the geographic area (so not stained by a Western collector) that i acquired from a dealer in Singapore that is richly stained black with warangan. When i received this blade some years ago it appeared to me that the stain was not particularly an old one (though if properly maintained a good stain can last many years). But i would image the stain was applied in modern times in a Malay setting. So it does seem to me that at least some people do use warangan on Bugis blades regardless of the general practices followed in this day and age. In the end i would suggest that it is your keris and therefore your choice. I also believe that some keris will undoubtedly look better without warangan while other will look better with.

jagabuwana · 19th June 2018, 12:30 PM

Thanks for the info David, and for the photo of your keris. Nice!

So if I interpret correctly, it seems that the foregoing of warangan by some collectors is due to the (supposedly erroneous) belief that Bugis-style keris weren't arsenic stained. But is something else typically used to stain the blade and highlight the pamor, if not warangan/arsenic? Or will acids like citrus/fruit juice suffice to show pamor due to etching?

Seeing as I won't have access to arsenic any time soon (perhaps ever), then this is an option I'd be interested in exploring, especially for this keris.

David · 19th June 2018, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

Thanks for the info David, and for the photo of your keris. Nice!

So if I interpret correctly, it seems that the foregoing of warangan by some collectors is due to the (supposedly erroneous) belief that Bugis-style keris weren't arsenic stained. But is something else typically used to stain the blade and highlight the pamor, if not warangan/arsenic? Or will acids like citrus/fruit juice suffice to show pamor due to etching?

Seeing as I won't have access to arsenic any time soon (perhaps ever), then this is an option I'd be interested in exploring, especially for this keris.

Well, i do believe that fruit acids will reveal the pattern somewhat, but not to the extent that staining the blade will. There are numerous alternatives to warangan, some traditional (i believe if you read the thread i linked at least one using rice and sulfur is mentioned) and some not so traditional. If you use the site's search engine and look for staining methods you will no doubt encounter many threads on the subject.
Most folks will probably say that industrial arsenic works best for this in that it is the most controllable substance you can use, however, you are correct that it is difficult to obtain. But people have also used Realgar for years and crushed it up to create warangan. It is an arsenic mineral and as far as i know it is not regulated like the industrial stuff. I have never used it myself, but i believe other on this forum have so you might want to do a search for that as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realgar

Roland_M · 19th June 2018, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I do believe it is fair to say that the currently accepted method of care for Bugis keris in general does not include warangan treatment.

I wonder, why they used pamor steel for Keris Bugis and never applied a staining? As far as I know arsenic must be added to the metal during the forging process to create the black phase of pamor steel after warangan. In my eyes it would make not much sense to add arsenic to the metal without later staining.

It might be interesting to know, that the staining is not really permanent. A little bit of metal polish is enough to remove the whole staining. This means the staining is not very resistant and need to be renewed after some decades or so, depending on environmental conditions and so on. Only under ideal conditions, in a collection for example, the staining can survive over centurys (in my hometown Dresden in the collection of the famous king August the Strong are two Keris from the 17ct. and the warangan is in very good condition. But that is an exeption).

Keris Bugis blades may had never been stained but what i can say for sure is that they were often or sometimes relief-etched. I hope someone knows, what etchant did they used? This would be very helpful.

Roland

A. G. Maisey · 20th June 2018, 01:07 AM

Novan:- going back more than 20 years, most, if not all, of the warangan that was used in Jawa came from Toko Vera, Pasar Gede, Solo. It was very good quality material and had been obtained prior to WWII, probably from China. Finally it ran out and the owner of Toko Vera acquired some more realgar, this time from India, it was absolutely lousy, unpredictable stuff and was withdrawn from sale. Toko Vera no longer sells warangan/realgar.

It is still possible to get quality blade staining done in Solo, but the stain job that is available to most people is not at all good, principally because of laziness in that the blades are not adequately cleaned prior to staining:- it is relatively fast and easy to restain an old blade that has been stained previously, but the cleaner that blade is, the longer it takes and the more difficult it becomes, so the people who do trade stains do the bare minimum work possible.

I do not know what is currently being used in Indonesia as the staining medium. I have been told, but I do not know if this is fact, that future import of both arsenic and bulk realgar has been banned by the Indonesian government.

David:- I would not suggest that anybody use industrial arsenic for blade staining, in my experience it can cause some very peculiar colours to appear on the blade, greens, yellows, reds. For most of the staining I have done, I have used laboratory quality white arsenic. This gives an excellent stain, as good or better than even the best warangan from Solo of the past, it is fast and totally predictable. However, in most countries any poison requires certification to enable purchase.

My preference for an alternative to a complete and correct stain is white household vinegar, on an old blade that has been previously stained this will sometimes give an adequate stain, not as intense as a proper job, but good enough. On other blades it will give the blade material sufficient contrast to permit the pattern to be seen.

Roland:- the original need for the use of pamor material in blades is not known with certainty, however there are several obvious reasons why pamor use would develop. A major supplier of iron in SE Asia was Luwu in Sulawesi, the iron ore involved was laterite and contained nickel, thus when used the final product appeared as a natural pamor.

http://www.oxis.org/theses/misol-2103.pdf

Other forms of pamor developed, most early forms being a combination of high phosphorus "white iron", and better quality material. The white iron was plentiful in Jawa from local production, mostly along the south coast, but high phosphorus iron is unsuitable for tool or weapon use, this local product was mixed with imported iron, and the result was what is now known as "pamor sanak", ie, pamor made from related material.

Meteoritic material that contained nickel was used in some very high quality keris made in Central Jawa from the end of the 18th century, and possibly had been used at times in the past. See Bronson, I doubt this paper is online.

Over time a blade made with pamor material became a benchmark of quality, and as talismanic attribution to pamor motifs intensified visible pamor became a necessity. It is notable that during times of war, such as, for example during the early 17th century, many blades required for purely weapon purposes were made from plain iron and steel, pamor use became restricted to keris and other weapons intended as pusaka, and for talismanic purposes.

Arsenic is a naturally occurring substance that is widely distributed, when it occurs in manufactured ferric material it was there from the beginning. Arsenic is not added to the ferric material during forging, when used to stain a blade it used only as a staining medium. See Georgia Harvey:-

https://aiccm.org.au/aiccm-publicati...-103-june-2007

Blade staining is not intended to be permanent, it acts in much the same way that gun blueing acts, in that it impedes development of corrosion. The keris is indigenous to tropical environments, in the absence of some form of protection, rust can appear on a polished blade over night. By staining a blade through the warangan process it is protected to some degree against corrosion. In Jawa keris and other blades are regularly cleaned and stained. The clean/stain process is itself corrosive, and this is the major reason why very old blades that have remained in their countries of origin are now often only a shadow of what they were when they were new.

Keris are still relief etched, however the precise method used is a closely guarded secret.

Roland, in 2012 I visited Dresden and obtained access to the storage facility of the State Museum, my specific interest during my visit was the examination of early keris that were held by that museum, however, it is worth noting that in the storage facility (magazine?) a very large collection of weapons are held. If I lived in Dresden I would be making continuing visits to that storage facility.

13th June 2018, 01:21 PM	#1
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 282	Keris lurus/sepokal Bugis for comment Hi all, I won this keris in an auction (previous discussion in this thread, which was locked due to me breaking some rules - oops). Based off contributions in the other thread, it is a Bugis sepokal/sapukala keris. Here are some more detailed photos now that it's been delivered. 1) There is some kind of crater-like relief or depression clearly visible in the first photo. I doubt it's pedjetan, probably a defect or damage. 2) Significant corrosion towards the tip 3) Evidence of pamor? 4) Not a very pronounced sirah cecak, and quite a uniform gonjo until the buntut. The pesi is a little twisted at the end, but looks more exaggerated in the photo. Not sure if the oxidation where the pesi meets the gonjo is evidence of mechanically fixing the pesi to it, or something else. I tried to scrape bits off and bits of some fibrous matter seemed to come off with it, which definitely didn't seem like corroded steel but perhaps wood or cloth. Attached Images Last edited by jagabuwana; 13th June 2018 at 02:07 PM.

17th June 2018, 10:58 AM	#3
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 282	Thanks Kai! Definitely addictive. I spend a lot of my time searching for dressings online, though it seems very hard to find a sheath and wrangka. Understandably so. Apart from arsenic being difficult to obtain outside of Indo, is there another reason why collectors of Bugis keris forego it?

19th June 2018, 12:30 PM	#5
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 282	Thanks for the info David, and for the photo of your keris. Nice! So if I interpret correctly, it seems that the foregoing of warangan by some collectors is due to the (supposedly erroneous) belief that Bugis-style keris weren't arsenic stained. But is something else typically used to stain the blade and highlight the pamor, if not warangan/arsenic? Or will acids like citrus/fruit juice suffice to show pamor due to etching? Seeing as I won't have access to arsenic any time soon (perhaps ever), then this is an option I'd be interested in exploring, especially for this keris.

20th June 2018, 01:07 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Novan:- going back more than 20 years, most, if not all, of the warangan that was used in Jawa came from Toko Vera, Pasar Gede, Solo. It was very good quality material and had been obtained prior to WWII, probably from China. Finally it ran out and the owner of Toko Vera acquired some more realgar, this time from India, it was absolutely lousy, unpredictable stuff and was withdrawn from sale. Toko Vera no longer sells warangan/realgar. It is still possible to get quality blade staining done in Solo, but the stain job that is available to most people is not at all good, principally because of laziness in that the blades are not adequately cleaned prior to staining:- it is relatively fast and easy to restain an old blade that has been stained previously, but the cleaner that blade is, the longer it takes and the more difficult it becomes, so the people who do trade stains do the bare minimum work possible. I do not know what is currently being used in Indonesia as the staining medium. I have been told, but I do not know if this is fact, that future import of both arsenic and bulk realgar has been banned by the Indonesian government. David:- I would not suggest that anybody use industrial arsenic for blade staining, in my experience it can cause some very peculiar colours to appear on the blade, greens, yellows, reds. For most of the staining I have done, I have used laboratory quality white arsenic. This gives an excellent stain, as good or better than even the best warangan from Solo of the past, it is fast and totally predictable. However, in most countries any poison requires certification to enable purchase. My preference for an alternative to a complete and correct stain is white household vinegar, on an old blade that has been previously stained this will sometimes give an adequate stain, not as intense as a proper job, but good enough. On other blades it will give the blade material sufficient contrast to permit the pattern to be seen. Roland:- the original need for the use of pamor material in blades is not known with certainty, however there are several obvious reasons why pamor use would develop. A major supplier of iron in SE Asia was Luwu in Sulawesi, the iron ore involved was laterite and contained nickel, thus when used the final product appeared as a natural pamor. http://www.oxis.org/theses/misol-2103.pdf Other forms of pamor developed, most early forms being a combination of high phosphorus "white iron", and better quality material. The white iron was plentiful in Jawa from local production, mostly along the south coast, but high phosphorus iron is unsuitable for tool or weapon use, this local product was mixed with imported iron, and the result was what is now known as "pamor sanak", ie, pamor made from related material. Meteoritic material that contained nickel was used in some very high quality keris made in Central Jawa from the end of the 18th century, and possibly had been used at times in the past. See Bronson, I doubt this paper is online. Over time a blade made with pamor material became a benchmark of quality, and as talismanic attribution to pamor motifs intensified visible pamor became a necessity. It is notable that during times of war, such as, for example during the early 17th century, many blades required for purely weapon purposes were made from plain iron and steel, pamor use became restricted to keris and other weapons intended as pusaka, and for talismanic purposes. Arsenic is a naturally occurring substance that is widely distributed, when it occurs in manufactured ferric material it was there from the beginning. Arsenic is not added to the ferric material during forging, when used to stain a blade it used only as a staining medium. See Georgia Harvey:- https://aiccm.org.au/aiccm-publicati...-103-june-2007 Blade staining is not intended to be permanent, it acts in much the same way that gun blueing acts, in that it impedes development of corrosion. The keris is indigenous to tropical environments, in the absence of some form of protection, rust can appear on a polished blade over night. By staining a blade through the warangan process it is protected to some degree against corrosion. In Jawa keris and other blades are regularly cleaned and stained. The clean/stain process is itself corrosive, and this is the major reason why very old blades that have remained in their countries of origin are now often only a shadow of what they were when they were new. Keris are still relief etched, however the precise method used is a closely guarded secret. Roland, in 2012 I visited Dresden and obtained access to the storage facility of the State Museum, my specific interest during my visit was the examination of early keris that were held by that museum, however, it is worth noting that in the storage facility (magazine?) a very large collection of weapons are held. If I lived in Dresden I would be making continuing visits to that storage facility.