Prambanan meteorite

[Seerp Visser]

Being a blacksmith i am studying the forging of the keris.

My study is focused on the forging of five kerises by the empu Karyadikromo in 1904. The forging was noticed and described by Dr. Isaac Groneman.
The forging of these kerises was published in the Internationales Archiv fur Ethnographie in 1910.

I should like to know the dimensions of the part of the Prambanan meteorite still present in the kraton of Surakarta today.

Can anybody, who has access to the kraton, help me with that information?
Does anybody have recent photographs from that meteorite from different angles?
(Especially the places where parts were taken of for the forging of kerises)

This piece, now in the kraton, was part of a larger meteorite. A second piece is mentioned in the literature.

I was not able to find further information about this second part.
Does anybody have some information about that second part?

Does anybody know, or where to find information about the finding of the meteorite and how people knew, or found out, they could use the material for kerises?

The meteorite iron had a special value for the kerises. The material was not easily made available by the Susuhunan.
Does anyone have information about the policy of the Susuhunan to make this meteorite material available?
From the literature i get the impression that only small parts were given to, only very important, people in only very special occasions.

[David]

Seerp, there are 2 photographs of the meteorite in Edward Frey's book (The Kris, Third Edition), one showing the entire shrine and another more close up. Just after page 54. I can't be sure from the photo, but i would estimate that the remaining piece is perhaps nearly 2 ft. high by nearly 3 ft. across.
This book was first published in the mid-1980s, but i am not aware that pieces of this meteorite were still being used so i would imaging that the size of the piece hasn't changed much since this photo was taken.

[sirek]

Originally Posted by David

Seerp, there are 2 photographs of the meteorite in Edward Frey's book (The Kris, Third Edition), one showing the entire shrine and another more close up..

These pictures are from Edward Frey's book The Kris, second Edition,
(which are the same, I guess?)

[David]

Yes Sirek, those are the same photos as in the 3rd edition.

[Seerp Visser]

Sirek, thanks for the photographs.

I have put some (estimated) dimensions on them.
Left from the lines the dimensions in cm. At the right side inches.
A rough calculation, from this dimensions, estimates the weight of the meteorite remnant to be approx. 1000 kgs.

I am very interested in the true dimensions as well as the surface where parts were chiseled off?. Probably the backside of the meteorite.
When anybody visits the keraton........

Alain, you mention meteorite parts used as talisman and the use of it for forging kerises, from 1820. Do you know where to find documentation about those facts? I am very interested to read more about it.
Much of the documentation i red until this time, is constantly repeating the same story with each time a new dressing.

What i found as well is that the pieces meteorite given to representatives of museums or governments weighed (except for one 250 grams piece what went to the Netherlands) not more than 50 grams per piece.
Dr. Groneman states that for an average keris 220 grams of meteorite was used. That seems unrealistic to me.

[David]

Originally Posted by Seerp Visser

Dr. Groneman states that for an average keris 220 grams of meteorite was used. That seems unrealistic to me.

Yeah, that seems unrealistic to me as well. That is nearly 1/2 pound of meteorite. You do realize, of course, that the entire blade is not made of pure meteoric ore when meteorite was used on these special keris. It is part of the pamor material only. I suppose that the pamor could be made up of all meteorite or in part, so i'm not sure the amount need be so specific. But i don't think a half pound would be necessary.

[A. G. Maisey]

Seerp, if you have a look at Edward Frey:- "The Kris" Oxford University Press you will find a couple photos of the remnant of the meteorite, and a short commentary on it. I cannot find my copy of Frey at the moment. Sorry.

I visit the public areas of the Keraton Surakarta Hadiningrat regularly, my most recent visit was in April this year, but I've only seen the meterorite remnant once, and that was perhaps 25 years ago. Even if you could see it in person, I doubt that you would learn anything from it. There's not much of it left, from memory, its about 24 inches long, 18 inches high, less than 18 inches wide.

It fell near Prambanan in about 1740, and broke into two large pieces and an uncounted number of smaller pieces. The people around Prambanan had been finding and selling the little pieces as talismans from the time of its fall. There was no problem at all in finding the meteorite, the locals saw and heard its fall, apparently it put on quite a show.

The first large piece was taken to Surakarta in 1784, the second large piece was taken in 1797. The palace empus had started to play with the stuff by about 1820.

In theory, pieces of the meteorite were only made available to the palace empus for use for select people, however, being Jawa it was apparently not too difficult to obtain a piece for use in one's own keris, if one had the means to pay for it.

In respect of Keraton "policy" for gifting of pieces of the meteorite, I know nothing, but again, this being Jawa, the Keraton being central to Jawa, and Sinuhun being central to the Keraton, my guess is that gifts would have been made on feeling at the time, not on any set policy.

All the above is written from memory, and I will stand correction on any part of it.

Edit:- I did a google on this, seems there are more than a few entries, somebody with time to spare might be able to dredge up a bit, here is a link to one that I looked at, seems like useable info:-

http://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.ed...pdf?sequence=2