2 KATAR's Comments and Advice please

katana · 10th March 2009, 06:48 PM

Hi,
just acquired my first Katars.....I appreciate they are not 'high end' examples, but I like them. I wondered about opinions of how far I should go cleaning them.

Any ideas as to age, region etc ....or any other comments (good and bad ) will, as usual , be gratefully received, thank you

.

Kind Regards David

Jim McDougall · 10th March 2009, 07:17 PM

Hi David,
Nice examples, and without hittin' the books, I cant offer much at the moment, on assessment, but say they appear to have good age. Perhaps Jens might come in as he knows these better than anyone!

What I would say, and strictly my own opinion, it that these patinated old weapons carry a much more attractive appearance left alone, than the more stark look of shiny metal. To me the patina is history, and it always is disheartening to see it stripped away. I would say stabilize any active rust, apply some light oil like gun oil or WD40, and leave them as is. ..again, my opinion. The status of the weapon up to point of acquisition is history...and perhaps its time with the new owner history as well...all part of the legacy!

Now lets hit the books!

All the best,
Jim

KuKulzA28 · 10th March 2009, 07:36 PM

Does your hand fit into it? I was once bought one and my little sister (8 years old) couldn't even fit her hand into it. I guess it was a miniature.

katana · 10th March 2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi David,
.................
What I would say, and strictly my own opinion, it that these patinated old weapons carry a much more attractive appearance left alone, than the more stark look of shiny metal. To me the patina is history, and it always is disheartening to see it stripped away. I would say stabilize any active rust, apply some light oil like gun oil or WD40, and leave them as is. ..again, my opinion. The status of the weapon up to point of acquisition is history...and perhaps its time with the new owner history as well...all part of the legacy!

Now lets hit the books!

All the best,
Jim

Hi Jim

,
I am inclined to agree with you............I was thinking of 'minimal' cleaning of certain areas to help 'highlight' the blade contours / details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Does your hand fit into it? I was once bought one and my little sister (8 years old) couldn't even fit her hand into it. I guess it was a miniature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacklacrau

I´ve bought one too...like the big one! and i like it very much.

3 fingers fit, the others support… lethal!

Hi KuKulz and Blacklacrau

the shorter Katar will accept 4 of my fingers (I've wide hands and 'fat' fingers ) and although a little 'tight', perfectly useable when 'gripped'. The longer version is a three finger hold (for me) with my 'little' finger curled around the lower bar (of the handle) and again quite useable with this grip. However I suspect the two bars which run parrallel to the blade offer some protection from a sword blade trying to remove your hand from your arm

Regards David

KuKulzA28 · 11th March 2009, 12:05 AM

I wonder why so many katars (in my experience) are so small... I'm sure it's been discussed. Can anyone please tell me why? I have medium-sized hands, so the handle bars on a katar I am using would have to be a little more than 4" (10 cm) long so that my whole hand can fit. I have held ones too small for my whole hand and they can still deliver a wicked punch-thrust but it feels vaguely awkward having my fingers outside of the longer parallel guard-bars. The fact some old katars had a metal hood over the back of the hand makes me think they were meant to fit over the whole hand and that the hand was supposed to fit inside the confines of the guard-bars...

Somehow I doubt ancient Indian hands were THAT small. Especially if they were from the warrior caste and had more access to better nutrition and exercise - those people should've been bigger than the average peasant.

Pukka Bundook · 11th March 2009, 11:09 AM

Hi David,
Nice katars. Just a drop of oil, and they'll cometo life on their own, in my opinion.

KuKuLzA,

Many peoples of India have much finer bone structure than us weserners.

Their hands fit, or they would have made them bigger....with no digits outside the bars. I have heard that the bars could be used for parrying, not good with fingers sticking out.
Speaking of "Warrior caste" we must remeber the Gurkhas, no very big, but fierce as tigers.........and about as much fun to mess with!
also we knowTulwars are very much the same, rather tight for westerners.

I remember reading in Egerton, how Rajput boys were given shorter tulwars and encouraged to try them on lambs and kids. (No, not other kids!...goat kids!) It may just be that they were also given katars, and this might just possibly account for some of the more diminutive examples.

Just a theory, with nothing to back it up!.....and it Is 3.09am!

Best wishes,

Richard.

KuKulzA28 · 11th March 2009, 09:43 PM

It is true that they have a finer bone structure, my ex-girlfriend was the same way. She is 5'3" and tall for her family. Her hands couldn't fit in the katar I had. I swear it must have been a miniature or for a small child.

I'm Taiwanese American, I'm lean and light, but surprisingly 5'10", probably due to a higher protein diet. A lot of Westerners have bigger hands than mine, I find medium sized latex gloves a near perfect fit.

I'll keep the size in mind when looking at katars! Thanks.

blacklacrau · 10th March 2009, 07:44 PM

I´ve bought one too...like the big one! and i like it very much.

3 fingers fit, the others support… lethal!

I´ve clean mine

10th March 2009, 06:48 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	2 KATAR's Comments and Advice please Hi, just acquired my first Katars.....I appreciate they are not 'high end' examples, but I like them. I wondered about opinions of how far I should go cleaning them. Any ideas as to age, region etc ....or any other comments (good and bad ) will, as usual , be gratefully received, thank you . Kind Regards David Attached Images

10th March 2009, 07:17 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Hi David, Nice examples, and without hittin' the books, I cant offer much at the moment, on assessment, but say they appear to have good age. Perhaps Jens might come in as he knows these better than anyone! What I would say, and strictly my own opinion, it that these patinated old weapons carry a much more attractive appearance left alone, than the more stark look of shiny metal. To me the patina is history, and it always is disheartening to see it stripped away. I would say stabilize any active rust, apply some light oil like gun oil or WD40, and leave them as is. ..again, my opinion. The status of the weapon up to point of acquisition is history...and perhaps its time with the new owner history as well...all part of the legacy! Now lets hit the books! All the best, Jim

10th March 2009, 07:36 PM	#3
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Does your hand fit into it? I was once bought one and my little sister (8 years old) couldn't even fit her hand into it. I guess it was a miniature.

11th March 2009, 12:05 AM	#5
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I wonder why so many katars (in my experience) are so small... I'm sure it's been discussed. Can anyone please tell me why? I have medium-sized hands, so the handle bars on a katar I am using would have to be a little more than 4" (10 cm) long so that my whole hand can fit. I have held ones too small for my whole hand and they can still deliver a wicked punch-thrust but it feels vaguely awkward having my fingers outside of the longer parallel guard-bars. The fact some old katars had a metal hood over the back of the hand makes me think they were meant to fit over the whole hand and that the hand was supposed to fit inside the confines of the guard-bars... Somehow I doubt ancient Indian hands were THAT small. Especially if they were from the warrior caste and had more access to better nutrition and exercise - those people should've been bigger than the average peasant.

11th March 2009, 11:09 AM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Hi David, Nice katars. Just a drop of oil, and they'll cometo life on their own, in my opinion. KuKuLzA, Many peoples of India have much finer bone structure than us weserners. Their hands fit, or they would have made them bigger....with no digits outside the bars. I have heard that the bars could be used for parrying, not good with fingers sticking out. Speaking of "Warrior caste" we must remeber the Gurkhas, no very big, but fierce as tigers.........and about as much fun to mess with! also we knowTulwars are very much the same, rather tight for westerners. I remember reading in Egerton, how Rajput boys were given shorter tulwars and encouraged to try them on lambs and kids. (No, not other kids!...goat kids!) It may just be that they were also given katars, and this might just possibly account for some of the more diminutive examples. Just a theory, with nothing to back it up!.....and it Is 3.09am! Best wishes, Richard.

11th March 2009, 09:43 PM	#7
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	It is true that they have a finer bone structure, my ex-girlfriend was the same way. She is 5'3" and tall for her family. Her hands couldn't fit in the katar I had. I swear it must have been a miniature or for a small child. I'm Taiwanese American, I'm lean and light, but surprisingly 5'10", probably due to a higher protein diet. A lot of Westerners have bigger hands than mine, I find medium sized latex gloves a near perfect fit. I'll keep the size in mind when looking at katars! Thanks.

10th March 2009, 07:44 PM	#8
blacklacrau Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portugal Posts: 50	I´ve bought one too...like the big one! and i like it very much. 3 fingers fit, the others support… lethal! I´ve clean mine