Keris Singa Barong 1800s

[shadejoy]

Hello members,

Here is another Keris that I have. Singa Barong 5 Luk with pamor Uler Lulut from 1800s.

Obviously, this Keris had Gold kinatah as I can see a little hint of gold traces in the wilah. Also, the hollow part of the Lion's mouth is giving away the fact that something was in it, most probably a golden ball.

My contact claimed that the gold was washed away due to aging and frequent cleansing. So there it is, a very 'clean' looking of Singa Barong.

The Keris was owned by a village head in East Java, who traded the Keris in exchange for a cow which was ritually slaughtered on the Islamic feast of sacrifice. The pamor itself is said to contain Prambanan meteorite (the meteorite that is reserved only for Kesultanan's Keris) and I have to admit that the pamor motif has a refined structure and an unusual brightness to it.

I would love to hear your comments on whether this Keris indeed contains Kanjeng Kyai pamor and how can one verify it. Thanks guys.

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

I would love to hear your comments on whether this Keris indeed contains Kanjeng Kyai pamor and how can one verify it. Thanks guys.

Peter, there is no known way to determine if meteoric ore is the source of the nickel/iron pamor once it has been forged into the blade. Many keris with contrasting pamor actually have no nickel content in their pamor at all (Bronson).
Obviously it would be even more impossible to determine if your keris has made use of the famous Kanjeng Kyai pamor, though personally i would think it highly doubtful. The entire idea of meteoric ore has been greatly overblown in the keris mythos and i would suggest that you take any claims to a keris being made with such materials with a very large grain of salt. Keris sellers will spin great yarns when selling their wares. Again, this material was reserved for a very small number of keris. There is nothing in your photographs that suggest this keris is one of them.
I would highly recommend you spend some time reading through this long and detailed thread in our archives for more perspective on the subject.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...eteroric+pamor

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

Peter, there is no known way to determine if meteoric ore is the source of the nickel/iron pamor once it has been forged into the blade. Many keris with contrasting pamor actually have no nickel content in their pamor at all (Bronson).
Obviously it would be even more impossible to determine if your keris has made use of the famous Kanjeng Kyai pamor, though personally i would think it highly doubtful. The entire idea of meteoric ore has been greatly overblown in the keris mythos and i would suggest that you take any claims to a keris being made with such materials with a very large grain of salt. Keris sellers will spin great yarns when selling their wares. Again, this material was reserved for a very small number of keris. There is nothing in your photographs that suggest this keris is one of them.
I would highly recommend you spend some time reading through this long and detailed thread in our archives for more perspective on the subject.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...eteroric+pamor

It is very difficult to verify just by looking at it. I was expecting to see an example or two of Kerises with Prambanan meteorite. I was wrong, there're none

However, thanks to the thread, I can confirm that there may be Kerises outside the court that contain meteorite. What I understand is, the Empu would have leftover meteorite from completing the Keris ordered by the court. Then the leftover would be used to make other Kerises which were ordered by people outside the court. But I assume the numbers of those type of Kerises are small.

But I truly love the philosophical value of Keris making in this regard: the meeting/marriage between heaven (meteorite) and earth (iron).

By the way, I am in need of your experience on this Dave. What have you heard of an Empu named Djiwo Dihardjo of Yogyakarta? He's quite renown. I spoke to him several weeks ago and he claims that he makes Keris containing meteorite. Should I be skeptical?

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

It is very difficult to verify just by looking at it. I was expecting to see an example or two of Kerises with Prambanan meteorite. I was wrong, there're none

However, thanks to the thread, I can confirm that there may be Kerises outside the court that contain meteorite. What I understand is, the Empu would have leftover meteorite from completing the Keris ordered by the court. Then the leftover would be used to make other Kerises which were ordered by people outside the court. But I assume the numbers of those type of Kerises are small.

But I truly love the philosophical value of Keris making in this regard: the meeting/marriage between heaven (meteorite) and earth (iron).

By the way, I am in need of your experience on this Dave. What have you heard of an Empu named Djiwo Dihardjo of Yogyakarta? He's quite renown. I spoke to him several weeks ago and he claims that he makes Keris containing meteorite. Should I be skeptical?

Peter, there is no reason at all to be skeptical of the Mpus claim. There are at least a couple of members of this forum who have also made keris using meteoric pamor. There is no doubt that it is possible to do. But this is the ONLY way to confirm the use of meteoric pamor, when one KNOWS for a fact that the material was used through first hand experience. Everything else is pretty much speculation or wishful thinking without confirmable provenance.
I do remember someone once remarking that palace Mpus used left over meteoric pamor material to make commissions for people outside the court. Perhaps you heard this story from the same person. I cannot confirm OR deny that claim and would be curious to know how you can confirm it yourself. I prefer to deal with confirmable facts whenever possible instead of speculation.
Everybody loves the idea of the marriage of heaven and earth, the concept of pamor from space metals melded with the iron of earth to create a magickal union in one's keris. I must admit it was one the very first legends of the keris that lured me into its grasp. And yes, there are obviously some very fine keris that have indeed use this material. The trouble is, which one? Perhaps there are a few royal keris that record the fact such pamor was used. If you would like to believe you have one of these you are free to believe so, but do understand that there is just no way to verify this as fact.
The keris has a long and storied history that began centuries before the Prambanan fall (mid 18th century). If you carefully read the thread i linked you should understand that there is no other historical record of any meteorite fall in the area previously or after Prambanan. Even so, iron/nickel bearing meteorites are even rarer than the usual rock meteorite so the Prambanan meteorite is something very rare and special. What's more, even some iron/nickel bearing meteorites fail to make workable pamor.
So please keep in mind that this idea of meteoric pamor is relatively new to the "philosophical value of Keris making." IMO it is a false flag in our appreciation and understanding of what makes a great keris. And since it's presence is completely unconfirmable without first hand knowledge it will forever be an elusive hope for the "holy grail" that can never be verified with any confidence.
However, you are free to believe whatever you wish.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, there is an Empu Jiwo Diharjo (old spelling:- Djiwo Dihardjo) who lives in Banyu Sumurub near Imogiri. He was made Empu Sarjono Supo by Sultan HB IX (alm.), so he is a genuine empu.

I've never seen his work and have never heard if his work is good, bad or indifferent, but he is supposedly descended from a line of empus. He's probably much better known in Jogja than anywhere else. I think he'd probably be pretty elderly now.

On meteorite, in a traditional Javanese forge it is pretty difficult to weld meteoritic material, so what you do is sandwich it in between a couple of bits of iron and weld this sandwich, then you can do the washing necessary to get rid of the impurities. No reason at all to not believe that it can be done. Any halfway competent smith can weld meteoritic material this way.

As to verification of meteoritic material in a blade, David is right:- the only way to positively know is if you saw it being welded, however, if you have a Surakarta keris that is likely to be the work of a karaton empu of the late 19th century, and the pamor is the right colour and has a prickly feel, then it is highly probable you are looking at meteoritic pamor. I have one keris blade and one tombak that have a high probability of containing meteoritic pamor, and I have a current era keris that definitely does contain meteoritic pamor.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, there is an Empu Jiwo Diharjo (old spelling:- Djiwo Dihardjo) who lives in Banyu Sumurub near Imogiri. He was made Empu Sarjono Supo by Sultan HB IX (alm.), so he is a genuine empu.

I've never seen his work and have never heard if his work is good, bad or indifferent, but he is supposedly descended from a line of empus. He's probably much better known in Jogja than anywhere else. I think he'd probably be pretty elderly now.

On meteorite, in a traditional Javanese forge it is pretty difficult to weld meteoritic material, so what you do is sandwich it in between a couple of bits of iron and weld this sandwich, then you can do the washing necessary to get rid of the impurities. No reason at all to not believe that it can be done. Any halfway competent smith can weld meteoritic material this way.

As to verification of meteoritic material in a blade, David is right:- the only way to positively know is if you saw it being welded, however, if you have a Surakarta keris that is likely to be the work of a karaton empu of the late 19th century, and the pamor is the right colour and has a prickly feel, then it is highly probable you are looking at meteoritic pamor. I have one keris blade and one tombak that have a high probability of containing meteoritic pamor, and I have a current era keris that definitely does contain meteoritic pamor.

Thanks for confirming Empu Jiwo.

I've sent him 50% down payment also let him know my birthdate(?)

He said it takes at least 6 months. There goes my Christmas present, I guess it really is too much to ask for a Keris from Santa..

Now, he also said that he does 'tirakat' during production. I can't fathom myself a single person, moreover an elderly, doing all the work by himself.

An Empu has got to have some helpers, right? If so, do they practice 'tirakat' as well?

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

I do remember someone once remarking that palace Mpus used left over meteoric pamor material to make commissions for people outside the court. Perhaps you heard this story from the same person. I cannot confirm OR deny that claim and would be curious to know how you can confirm it yourself.

Thank you for your honest review Dave.

Actually I found that statement through the thread that you forwarded to me. But for the life of me, I couldn't find the posting.

One thing to clarify though is that I take interest in Keris not because of its mysticism or animism. I say more power to you if your Keris could fly, but I truly admire the significance behind the Keris, the wisdom behind it. It just fascinates me because it is more than just a weapon.

To compare, I can easily find a Smith & Wesson here in NEPA, actually, it's 10 minutes away from me. But a revolver only knows a purpose and gun owners here in the great US of A most likely don't give a hoot about gun's esoteric values. I find Keris to be on another plane, it just doesn't leave things for granted. So truly to me, it's not about if it's made of meteorite or not, per se, but more of what values, messages, wishes that are embodied in one Keris. Definitely more interested in the why than in what.

But hey, I'm no hypocrite, I wish all my Kerises had meteorite on them

Allan,

I contacted Empu Jiwo a couple of months ago to discuss a possibility of making an heirloom. But god knows why, my contact in Indonesia, who is a seller that I (try) to keep a good relationship with, was very skeptical of him and hesitant to mediate us. So now I deal with Empu Jiwo personally, I blindly put my trust in him. It takes about 7 months to complete. Yes, I would consider him elderly.

Allan, would you mind share with us your meteorite Kamardikan Keris?

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

I do remember someone once remarking that palace Mpus used left over meteoric pamor material to make commissions for people outside the court. Perhaps you heard this story from the same person. I cannot confirm OR deny that claim and would be curious to know how you can confirm it yourself. I prefer to deal with confirmable facts whenever possible instead of speculation.

Found him! Guy named Henk.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...eteroric+pamor

[A. G. Maisey]

Here you are Peter, this blade has the pamor made from meteoritic material.

How am I certain?

Because I welded the pamor. Then I gave it to a gentleman in Solo whom I considered to be producing the best non-picture Surakarta style keris at that time and had him make the blade. It took him two attempts before I was more or less happy with the job. This blade is still not perfect, the sogokan are not as good as they could be, but he did the best he could with the tools he had. When I rejected his first attempt, I believe it was sold to a diplomat from a South American country, might have been Venezuela.

This keris was made a few years ago now, I forget when, but about 1990 I think. The maker has now effectively retired himself from making keris and out of respect for his wish to remain inactive I prefer to withhold his name.

The warangka is thuya burl, made by Sutejo, the pendok is the work of Bp. Dayadi (alm.), the jejeran is also by Sutejo, the mendak is an old one made of gold and set with natural stones.

Objectively, this could be regarded as a pretty fair example of a current era keris.

NB. a "picture keris" is one that has some sort of carving to the blade, such as a naga, or a singo barong etc.

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

Found him! Guy named Henk.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...eteroric+pamor

Thanks Peter. That is also the one place where i have read this information. I do not have the Dutch book that Henk quotes nor know what the source of that author's information was.