Afghan Shashkas

ariel · 26th June 2005, 08:28 PM

We have not discussed these beasties in a while. Here are 3 from my collection.
They are bigger, heavier and more curved than the usual Caucasian shashkas from which they derive (Lebedynsky's " pseudo-shashkas). The Central Asians were likely impressed by the Cossack weapons when the Russians invaded what is now Uzbekistan and the surroundings in 1850s.
Both sport stamps of the Mazar-i-Sharif armoury (legally Afghanistan, ethnically Uzbek).
Notice the unusual arrangement of the scabbard rings: the hanging one on the convex part of the scabbard, the fixed, rectangular one on the "body" side of the scabbard, close to ricasso. Both have the so-called Asian construction, i.e. handle sunken into the scabbard half-way. I am wondering, whether this manner derives from Khybers.... The Caucasian construction had the handle all the way out.
The blades are of simple steel, the smaller one with 3 bronze (brass?) dots (What is the reson?) and a false-edge tip (Kilij-like). The handle strap and the bolster are silver and have typical Central Asian engravings.
The bigger one is Koranically etched all over and has a very simple and sturdy steel bolster.

ariel · 26th June 2005, 08:42 PM

To be continued:
Here is a typical very old Circassian shashka between her two Uzbek cousins.
Notice the size difference: Caucasians valued their weapons light and relatively small. I heard the theory that this was due to geography (mountainous and restricted Caucasus vs. open steppes and deserts of Central Asia). I doubt it: there are tons of mountains in Uzbekistan and Afghanistan and one does not need a horizon-wide view to wield a bigger blade. Another hypothesis was the heavy physique of the Central Asians. That is also not likely: one should just see the Chechens, Georgians and the rest of them. These buggers filled half of the Soviet national wrestling team!!
But the handles are very different: almost cylinrical with semicircular "ears" in the case of the Caucasian shashka vs. widened toward the "pommel" that is also quite elongated. Very easy to distinguish.

ariel · 26th June 2005, 08:46 PM

And the last one: a very old one and quite crude.
However, look at the distal part of the blade: it narrows almost in a bayonet-like fashion. This is very similar to some Tatar sabers, especially the excavated ones. Perhaps, it is a trait common to old Mongolian blades.

Rivkin · 27th June 2005, 01:29 AM

Thank you very much for showing them to us ! I'll be honest - most of the things people show here have lots of gold and silver, and koftgari this and scabbard that, but I really love to see such simple and functional weapons, as these ones.

I'm terribly sorry for saying such things by memory, with no citations, but:

a. Georgian mecenaries have been in Afghanistan since late XVII century, so there can be another source for shashkas being brought to Afghanistan.

b. I think most of caucasian nations had their copies of a mongolian "armor-piercing" point, but I've never seen it in shashka mounts - only in sabre-style mounts. Thank you very much for sharing it with us !

Jim McDougall · 27th June 2005, 03:19 AM

Ariel,
Outstanding display of these fascinating variations of shashkas!! It seems these are seldom ever seen in collections, and there is little on them in most books except Lebedynsky's "Les Armes Orientales" (pp.75-76).
It seems that the Afghans were typically rather large in comparison to most ethnic groups in these regions, so the huge size of these sabres is not surprising. These really are most impressive.

I think it is interesting how the Mongol influence is reflected in the blade features, the peak on the armor piercing point and the almost vestigial yelman on the other.

Thank you so much for posting these together so the comparisons can be seen and the key features on the Afghan examples shown.

It seems to me that Georgia, one of the key regions of the Caucusus, is not typically associated with using the shashka, except for the distinctly identified Mingrelian versions with dramatically canted hilts (anybody out there have a photo of one of these with the skirted scabbard?)

Do you know of Georgian examples of the traditional shashka form and is there any particular identifying characteristic about them?

Once again Ariel, thank you for sharing these excellent examples !!!

All the best,
Jim

Rivkin · 27th June 2005, 03:59 AM

I really don't know how Afgans got their shashkas, so I shoud've just listened, but here is an example of a georgian shashka:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=georgian

Concerning why caucasian shashkas were so light what I was told is that since the first time one would use his shashka would most likely be at a competition - chopping rugs, folded a few times, and so on, one had to buy a weapon that was not only usable in combat, but was also competitions-ready.

During competitions it was considered a bad tone to use heavy shashkas, because it was showing that the owner has no skill, but relies entirely on the blade's mass.

Concerning powerful caucasian physique - I think it's more nurture than nature, and all nations that live in physically challenging environment (whether it's wrestling-loving parents, or it's simply a tough medieaval life). Genetically southern caucasian haplotype EU9 is shared by nations that are known not be body-builders by a very long shot.

26th June 2005, 08:28 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Afghan Shashkas We have not discussed these beasties in a while. Here are 3 from my collection. They are bigger, heavier and more curved than the usual Caucasian shashkas from which they derive (Lebedynsky's " pseudo-shashkas). The Central Asians were likely impressed by the Cossack weapons when the Russians invaded what is now Uzbekistan and the surroundings in 1850s. Both sport stamps of the Mazar-i-Sharif armoury (legally Afghanistan, ethnically Uzbek). Notice the unusual arrangement of the scabbard rings: the hanging one on the convex part of the scabbard, the fixed, rectangular one on the "body" side of the scabbard, close to ricasso. Both have the so-called Asian construction, i.e. handle sunken into the scabbard half-way. I am wondering, whether this manner derives from Khybers.... The Caucasian construction had the handle all the way out. The blades are of simple steel, the smaller one with 3 bronze (brass?) dots (What is the reson?) and a false-edge tip (Kilij-like). The handle strap and the bolster are silver and have typical Central Asian engravings. The bigger one is Koranically etched all over and has a very simple and sturdy steel bolster. Attached Images

26th June 2005, 08:42 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	To be continued: Here is a typical very old Circassian shashka between her two Uzbek cousins. Notice the size difference: Caucasians valued their weapons light and relatively small. I heard the theory that this was due to geography (mountainous and restricted Caucasus vs. open steppes and deserts of Central Asia). I doubt it: there are tons of mountains in Uzbekistan and Afghanistan and one does not need a horizon-wide view to wield a bigger blade. Another hypothesis was the heavy physique of the Central Asians. That is also not likely: one should just see the Chechens, Georgians and the rest of them. These buggers filled half of the Soviet national wrestling team!! But the handles are very different: almost cylinrical with semicircular "ears" in the case of the Caucasian shashka vs. widened toward the "pommel" that is also quite elongated. Very easy to distinguish. Attached Images

26th June 2005, 08:46 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And the last one: a very old one and quite crude. However, look at the distal part of the blade: it narrows almost in a bayonet-like fashion. This is very similar to some Tatar sabers, especially the excavated ones. Perhaps, it is a trait common to old Mongolian blades. Attached Images

27th June 2005, 01:29 AM	#4
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Thank you very much for showing them to us ! I'll be honest - most of the things people show here have lots of gold and silver, and koftgari this and scabbard that, but I really love to see such simple and functional weapons, as these ones. I'm terribly sorry for saying such things by memory, with no citations, but: a. Georgian mecenaries have been in Afghanistan since late XVII century, so there can be another source for shashkas being brought to Afghanistan. b. I think most of caucasian nations had their copies of a mongolian "armor-piercing" point, but I've never seen it in shashka mounts - only in sabre-style mounts. Thank you very much for sharing it with us !

27th June 2005, 03:19 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Ariel, Outstanding display of these fascinating variations of shashkas!! It seems these are seldom ever seen in collections, and there is little on them in most books except Lebedynsky's "Les Armes Orientales" (pp.75-76). It seems that the Afghans were typically rather large in comparison to most ethnic groups in these regions, so the huge size of these sabres is not surprising. These really are most impressive. I think it is interesting how the Mongol influence is reflected in the blade features, the peak on the armor piercing point and the almost vestigial yelman on the other. Thank you so much for posting these together so the comparisons can be seen and the key features on the Afghan examples shown. It seems to me that Georgia, one of the key regions of the Caucusus, is not typically associated with using the shashka, except for the distinctly identified Mingrelian versions with dramatically canted hilts (anybody out there have a photo of one of these with the skirted scabbard?) Do you know of Georgian examples of the traditional shashka form and is there any particular identifying characteristic about them? Once again Ariel, thank you for sharing these excellent examples !!! All the best, Jim

27th June 2005, 03:59 AM	#6
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I really don't know how Afgans got their shashkas, so I shoud've just listened, but here is an example of a georgian shashka: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=georgian Concerning why caucasian shashkas were so light what I was told is that since the first time one would use his shashka would most likely be at a competition - chopping rugs, folded a few times, and so on, one had to buy a weapon that was not only usable in combat, but was also competitions-ready. During competitions it was considered a bad tone to use heavy shashkas, because it was showing that the owner has no skill, but relies entirely on the blade's mass. Concerning powerful caucasian physique - I think it's more nurture than nature, and all nations that live in physically challenging environment (whether it's wrestling-loving parents, or it's simply a tough medieaval life). Genetically southern caucasian haplotype EU9 is shared by nations that are known not be body-builders by a very long shot.