Show us your pesh-kabz

mariusgmioc · 6th October 2021, 02:18 PM

I have one Persian and two North Indian.

Here they are:

Bryce · 7th October 2021, 11:25 PM

Beautiful examples! Unfortunately I don't have any to contribute, but I may have to put one on my Christmas wish list.
Cheers,
Bryce

mariusgmioc · 9th October 2021, 07:33 PM

So nobody wants to share their Pesh with us?!

Battara · 9th October 2021, 08:20 PM

When I grow up I might get one. These are beautiful!

Interested Party · 9th October 2021, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

So nobody wants to share their Pesh with us?!

How could you follow these?

Saracen · 9th October 2021, 10:57 PM

Can I share a just karud?
I heard that in English "karud" and "pesh-kabz" are the same thing

.
The first one is just "kard", and the second one is the same kard, that is worn "hilt (pesh) forward (kabz)" (but this is already a little bit in Persian

)

ariel · 10th October 2021, 07:19 AM

These are classical Indo-Persian Pesh Kabz: recurved blades. What is popularly ( if incorrectly) called "karud" is just Pesh Kabz with straight blade. Those were widespread in Central Asia: Afghanistan and Khanates. In fact, ch'hura is from the same family, just a local variant of the handle from the Khyber Pass Mahsuds. The second one might have been called " khanjar" due to its double edge construction ( can't see well from the picture)
And you are correct: " karud" is just a local phonetic epenthesis ( insertion of a vowel between the two consonants). As usual, multiple bladed weapons were locally known by very generic names: " sword' ( saif, tulwar, kilij, shamshir in Arabic, Hindi , Turkish and Farsi), " knife" ( ch'hura, bichaq, P'chak in Hindi, Turkish and Uzbek. Kard is just a "knife" in Farsi, and "kord" in Tadjik. The purely phonetic origin of " karud" as mispronounced " kard" was directly stated in the mid-19th century by Florian Gille, the Russian director of the Tsarskoe Selo collection of weapons, by the 1955 edition of the Moser collection, indirectly in the Buttin's and Holstejn's catalogues and finally directly by Elgood in his new glossary. The first hint comes from the Gilchrist's glossary, where the word is written in Farsi as " kard" but transliterated as " karud". It went into common circulation by G.C. Stone, who was relying on early Moser's notes.
We have broken a lot of spears over this topic in the past. There is no way to extinguish the use of " karud" from the vocabularies of e-bay sellers and amateur and naive collectors, and perhaps this erroneous name serves its purpose: right away it gives us an image of a dagger with a straight blade. However, most respectable weapon historians, dealers and collectors do not use it. Just like no professional self-respecting Oriental weapons guy will ever use "scimitar":-)

6th October 2021, 02:18 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Show us your pesh-kabz I have one Persian and two North Indian. Here they are: Attached Images

10th October 2021, 07:19 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	These are classical Indo-Persian Pesh Kabz: recurved blades. What is popularly ( if incorrectly) called "karud" is just Pesh Kabz with straight blade. Those were widespread in Central Asia: Afghanistan and Khanates. In fact, ch'hura is from the same family, just a local variant of the handle from the Khyber Pass Mahsuds. The second one might have been called " khanjar" due to its double edge construction ( can't see well from the picture) And you are correct: " karud" is just a local phonetic epenthesis ( insertion of a vowel between the two consonants). As usual, multiple bladed weapons were locally known by very generic names: " sword' ( saif, tulwar, kilij, shamshir in Arabic, Hindi , Turkish and Farsi), " knife" ( ch'hura, bichaq, P'chak in Hindi, Turkish and Uzbek. Kard is just a "knife" in Farsi, and "kord" in Tadjik. The purely phonetic origin of " karud" as mispronounced " kard" was directly stated in the mid-19th century by Florian Gille, the Russian director of the Tsarskoe Selo collection of weapons, by the 1955 edition of the Moser collection, indirectly in the Buttin's and Holstejn's catalogues and finally directly by Elgood in his new glossary. The first hint comes from the Gilchrist's glossary, where the word is written in Farsi as " kard" but transliterated as " karud". It went into common circulation by G.C. Stone, who was relying on early Moser's notes. We have broken a lot of spears over this topic in the past. There is no way to extinguish the use of " karud" from the vocabularies of e-bay sellers and amateur and naive collectors, and perhaps this erroneous name serves its purpose: right away it gives us an image of a dagger with a straight blade. However, most respectable weapon historians, dealers and collectors do not use it. Just like no professional self-respecting Oriental weapons guy will ever use "scimitar":-) Last edited by ariel; 10th October 2021 at 07:34 AM.

7th October 2021, 11:25 PM	#2
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 186	Beautiful examples! Unfortunately I don't have any to contribute, but I may have to put one on my Christmas wish list. Cheers, Bryce

9th October 2021, 07:33 PM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	So nobody wants to share their Pesh with us?!

9th October 2021, 08:20 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	When I grow up I might get one. These are beautiful!

9th October 2021, 10:57 PM	#6
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Can I share a just karud? I heard that in English "karud" and "pesh-kabz" are the same thing . The first one is just "kard", and the second one is the same kard, that is worn "hilt (pesh) forward (kabz)" (but this is already a little bit in Persian )