Can anyone help me with this sword?

Madsen · 30th December 2011, 02:35 PM

I have this beautiful sword but I dont know much about its origin. I think it is Caucasian, and a straight version of the Shashka, but I haven't seen many of those around. As you can see in the pictures, the metal sheeth is silverish but the decorations are bright green, any thoughts to the material?

Thank you

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th December 2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madsen

I have this beautiful sword but I dont know much about its origin. I think it is Caucasian, and a straight version of the Shashka, but I haven't seen many of those around. As you can see in the pictures, the metal sheeth is silverish but the decorations are bright green, any thoughts to the material?

Thank you

Salaams Madsen, Welcome to the Forum (+seasons greetings !)

Please have a look at Military Museum Pictures ~ which is currently on the first page ~ by Erlikhan and you will see a Shashka or Shaska from the Caucasus in the Topkapi museum. Looks like yours essentially. What material is the green decoration..metal? or some sort of clossonne' effect. Where did you find the weapon and how old do you think it is... It looks pretty fresh but that may only be because of the light / camera flash.... and is there any marking on the blade? I looked up Shashka on Forum Search and got into the background of the weapon as its not my area ... but theres some interesting stuff there...and they make great subjects to research and collect...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Madsen · 30th December 2011, 05:21 PM

[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi]Salaams Madsen, Welcome to the Forum (+seasons greetings !)

Please have a look at Military Museum Pictures ~ which is currently on the first page ~ by Erlikhan and you will see a Shashka or Shaska from the Caucasus in the Topkapi museum. Looks like yours essentially. What material is the green decoration..metal? or some sort of clossonne' effect.

Thank you for replying! Yes one of the swords in the pictures is similar design but still not as straight as this sword. The straight design is very unusual for a caucasian blade. I believe the sword is from end 19th century, so I wouldn't say its "fresh". There are no markings. I cant tell what the green glossy parts are made of so thoughts would be appreciated

delor · 30th December 2011, 06:58 PM

Hello Madsen,
also think it's a causasian shashka.
The blade seems to be very bright and clean. Is it its original aspect or has it been cleaned and - maybe - repolished ?

Jim McDougall · 30th December 2011, 07:28 PM

This appears to be as noted, a reasonably modern interpretation of 'shashka' of the type used in Mingrelian regions of Georgia in the Caucusus. These straight blade 'pallasches' in the 19th century were often with a distinctive skirted scabbard which attached from the scabbard throat.
The hilt reflects the characteristic pommel and ribbed, wired central grip area. It is a beautifully crafted example, quite possibly produced by craftsmen in Tblisi who are still producing amazing swords.

The history behind these Caucasian weapons is fascinating, and tremendously complex as of course is the history of these regions and thier people. While shashkas are of course typically with curved sabre blades, weapons in Georgian regions often were straight bladed, as with examples of the Khevsur duelling swords known as pranguli. These swords' blades typically had the radiused 'hatchet' tip as seen on these pallasches.

ariel · 30th December 2011, 08:34 PM

IMHO, this is a very, very, very new touristy imitation of something pretending to be caucasian. The form of the blade is wrong, the construction and the decoration of the handle are wrong and cheap ( stamped).
There is a whole industry in economically strapped Georgia aimed at producing mass quantities of this stuff for the unsuspecting russian and western markets. Often the prices are outrageous and this serves as yet another honey trap: if THIS one costs 10 times THAT one, it must be old and rare.

Recently, the prices for caucasian weapons went down. It is possible to buy something less shiny, but old and authentic, and for a very reasonable price. Just watch for the fakes ( some are composition pieces, some are decent replicas, some are just equivalents of the chinese "rare and famous sword of military commander in rosewood vagina".

Sorry for the honest opinion.

Jim McDougall · 31st December 2011, 03:41 PM

Hi Madsen,
As Ibrahiim has well noted, the weapons of the Caucusus are fascinating, but frankly esoteric enough that it is often difficult to discern accurately the character of examples being sold.
Despite the unfortunate assessment on this very attractive sword, I wanted to thank you for posting it and was remiss in not properly welcoming you to the forum. While these modern examples are of course by definition replicas, they are still produced primarily in the regions of thier earlier ancestors and carrying the traditions of them. It is intriguing history and as has been noted, many of the authentic earlier examples are still to be found and often at relatively reasonable prices.

I hope you will continue posting with us, and look forward to more on your field of collecting.

All best regards,
Jim

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 1st January 2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madsen

I have this beautiful sword but I dont know much about its origin. I think it is Caucasian, and a straight version of the Shashka, but I haven't seen many of those around. As you can see in the pictures, the metal sheeth is silverish but the decorations are bright green, any thoughts to the material?

Thank you

Salaams Madsen,
I wondered what your thoughts were on the sword? Did you pick this up in the Souk perhaps over in Istanbul or where so I have a better idea on what the green decoration is... which could be either a clossonne effect or green ceramic inlay. (I see a lot of Neillo work on this type of weapon which was originally a Persian technique) I wondered what the black? stones were on the pommel and scabbard as they look like Jet.. I have seen some of that work from Turkomen and Afghan sources and I was curious. Caucaz weaponry is quite superb and if this is your chosen area you will have a great fun exploring that and developing a nose for what is old and what is not etc .
This is a great Forum and you will get lots of help as Jim is intimating and if you need any information this is a fine resource to be part of. We look forward to hearing from you...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

30th December 2011, 02:35 PM	#1
Madsen Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 4	Can anyone help me with this sword? I have this beautiful sword but I dont know much about its origin. I think it is Caucasian, and a straight version of the Shashka, but I haven't seen many of those around. As you can see in the pictures, the metal sheeth is silverish but the decorations are bright green, any thoughts to the material? Thank you Attached Images

30th December 2011, 05:21 PM	#3
Madsen Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 4	[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi]Salaams Madsen, Welcome to the Forum (+seasons greetings !) Please have a look at Military Museum Pictures ~ which is currently on the first page ~ by Erlikhan and you will see a Shashka or Shaska from the Caucasus in the Topkapi museum. Looks like yours essentially. What material is the green decoration..metal? or some sort of clossonne' effect. Thank you for replying! Yes one of the swords in the pictures is similar design but still not as straight as this sword. The straight design is very unusual for a caucasian blade. I believe the sword is from end 19th century, so I wouldn't say its "fresh". There are no markings. I cant tell what the green glossy parts are made of so thoughts would be appreciated

30th December 2011, 06:58 PM	#4
delor Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Marseille - France Posts: 73	Hello Madsen, also think it's a causasian shashka. The blade seems to be very bright and clean. Is it its original aspect or has it been cleaned and - maybe - repolished ?

30th December 2011, 07:28 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	This appears to be as noted, a reasonably modern interpretation of 'shashka' of the type used in Mingrelian regions of Georgia in the Caucusus. These straight blade 'pallasches' in the 19th century were often with a distinctive skirted scabbard which attached from the scabbard throat. The hilt reflects the characteristic pommel and ribbed, wired central grip area. It is a beautifully crafted example, quite possibly produced by craftsmen in Tblisi who are still producing amazing swords. The history behind these Caucasian weapons is fascinating, and tremendously complex as of course is the history of these regions and thier people. While shashkas are of course typically with curved sabre blades, weapons in Georgian regions often were straight bladed, as with examples of the Khevsur duelling swords known as pranguli. These swords' blades typically had the radiused 'hatchet' tip as seen on these pallasches.

30th December 2011, 08:34 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	IMHO, this is a very, very, very new touristy imitation of something pretending to be caucasian. The form of the blade is wrong, the construction and the decoration of the handle are wrong and cheap ( stamped). There is a whole industry in economically strapped Georgia aimed at producing mass quantities of this stuff for the unsuspecting russian and western markets. Often the prices are outrageous and this serves as yet another honey trap: if THIS one costs 10 times THAT one, it must be old and rare. Recently, the prices for caucasian weapons went down. It is possible to buy something less shiny, but old and authentic, and for a very reasonable price. Just watch for the fakes ( some are composition pieces, some are decent replicas, some are just equivalents of the chinese "rare and famous sword of military commander in rosewood vagina". Sorry for the honest opinion.

31st December 2011, 03:41 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Hi Madsen, As Ibrahiim has well noted, the weapons of the Caucusus are fascinating, but frankly esoteric enough that it is often difficult to discern accurately the character of examples being sold. Despite the unfortunate assessment on this very attractive sword, I wanted to thank you for posting it and was remiss in not properly welcoming you to the forum. While these modern examples are of course by definition replicas, they are still produced primarily in the regions of thier earlier ancestors and carrying the traditions of them. It is intriguing history and as has been noted, many of the authentic earlier examples are still to be found and often at relatively reasonable prices. I hope you will continue posting with us, and look forward to more on your field of collecting. All best regards, Jim