M1840 Saber Spine Mark

[celtan]

Hi Guys,

One of my swords has this mark on its spine. It's an M1840, and its scabbard has the S&K logo in its chape. Which doesn't necessarily means they were originally together.

The shape reminds me of the French Coulaux Freres mark.

I think I once saw one similar back at SFI.

What do you think?

Best

M

[Hotspur]

Can you share a profile picture of the entire hilt? Any markings on the casting itself? I don't see anything but a smudged blur on the spine of the blade, so I guess it could read as anything. One note I am quoting from somewhere else writes

John Thillmann’s “Civil War Cavalry and Artillery Sabers” discusses this rare variation on page 370. This is identical to that example, with the tall pommel cap, blade marking of a diamond with “O” cartouche over 39 over S&K on the blade back, and matching diamond/O over 39 on the face of the guard. Scabbard drag marked crown/D and S&K. The 1839 trials were to select new swords for the cavalry, artillery and dragoons.

So, that does indicate there may be markings on the spine from time to time. I have also seen blade spines marked with the somewhat ubuiquitous term of PROVED. all by itself. Why anyone would obliterate any mark aside from deception is something to consider. Offering an What If? presentation that some find fond of further speculation. I just see a smudge.

Cheers

GC

[celtan]

Hi G,

It doesn't look like someone has put a file to the seal, but more like honest use and wear, due to the scabbard's throat action on that area.

The sword is gorgeous, a confederate presentation sword of apparent german make, which I have been researching for years. Yet, that spine's hallmark still eludes me. The thing is that it "feels" maddenly familiar. Perhaps some stylized initials?

Merry Xmas to you all!

M

Originally Posted by Hotspur

Can you share a profile picture of the entire hilt? Any markings on the casting itself? I don't see anything but a smudged blur on the spine of the blade, so I guess it could read as anything.

So, that does indicate there may be markings on the spine from time to time. I have also seen blade spines marked with the somewhat ubuiquitous term of PROVED. all by itself. Why anyone would obliterate any mark aside from deception is something to consider. Offering an What If? presentation that some find fond of further speculation. I just see a smudge.

Cheers

GC

[Hotspur]

What determines this to be a confederate presentation? I am not familiar with the theme, nor have you mentioned much description of it in this thread. Etched yes, how would you better describe the blade decoration to a blind man (as I can't make much from those photos)? Is there some other provenance that goes with the blade?

As to the spine photos, I still just see a blur and actually little that resembles normal or regular wear to me. Again, what I see and I hope read to be objective, as I have no reason to declare it anything in particular. What stylized initials do you read in the marks? Again, all I see is a blurry smudged look. Could it be a WR that has been deliberately obscured or just worn down?

Cheers

GC

[celtan]

Hi Glenn,

I was just asking _about the spine's mark_. Since you seem to be interested in the rest of the sword, here are other pictures. I hope you like them.

Since you ask, her owner was the commander of 61st Va Inf. Company A at the Battle of The Crater/Petersburg/Cold Harbor .

BTW: If by any chance, you find info on the post-war whereabouts of John W/G Wallace (from VA's Norfolk county), I'd love to hear it. He was gravely wounded on the charge. Also, I have been trying to check the 61st Va Roster, as published by Benjamin Trask, unsuccessfully. Current copies run into the $200, and I'm just not _that_ interested in that unit, only what relates to Capt. Wallace. I guess I'll wait til' I find a copy at EB.

There's a chance that a relative of Wallace, also serving in the 61st but in Company C, died in the Confederate charge.

BTW, that "blur" is quite clear to me in that it represents the edges of some stylized letters, probably K, S or G. I simply can't correlate the remaining traces to W or R. And, if someone wanted those removed, it would have been extremely easy to do so, they lie very exposed on the spine. So much so, that even I could do it.

Best/TTFN

M

Originally Posted by Hotspur

What determines this to be a confederate presentation? I am not familiar with the theme, nor have you mentioned much description of it in this thread. Etched yes, how would you better describe the blade decoration to a blind man (as I can't make much from those photos)? Is there some other provenance that goes with the blade?

As to the spine photos, I still just see a blur and actually little that resembles normal or regular wear to me. Again, what I see and I hope read to be objective, as I have no reason to declare it anything in particular. What stylized initials do you read in the marks? Again, all I see is a blurry smudged look. Could it be a WR that has been deliberately obscured or just worn down?

Cheers

GC

[celtan]

More!

[celtan]

Even More!

[GTWiv4]

I have read this with interest. It appears this sword was my great grand father's. The best I can piece the story together his sister most likely ended up with it and upon the death of her grandson it went to auction. His name is John Gallaudette Wallace. William Curtis Wallace is his brother. Col Stewart is a cousin. Some how in his book "A Pair of Blankets" he uses the wrong letter for his middle name. I know John did attend reunions of the Battle of the Crater. It is my guess it was given to him at one of those gaterings.

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by GTWiv4

I have read this with interest. It appears this sword was my great grand father's. The best I can piece the story together his sister most likely ended up with it and upon the death of her grandson it went to auction. His name is John Gallaudette Wallace. William Curtis Wallace is his brother. Col Stewart is a cousin. Some how in his book "A Pair of Blankets" he uses the wrong letter for his middle name. I know John did attend reunions of the Battle of the Crater. It is my guess it was given to him at one of those gaterings.

This is a great find, to come across this thread and the additions of your information invaluable to the research the owner must be considering and continuing.

Middle names are often used in familar family life. Things like my dad being addressed as his middle name and likewise myself. It soemowhat follows the "son of" traits of names as well.

Good stuff

GC