Wheellock musket

cylord21 · 24th July 2010, 07:25 PM

Hello everybody, my first post in this section and it has been some time since my last post on Ethnographic Weapons, but reading often.
I have come across this wheellock musket that i want to share and learn about it since i don't know much on the subject. Specs are as follow
German stock ? decorated with inlay and engraved bone, pronounced cheek piece and trigger guard shaped grip
Total lenght 88.5 cm
Octagonal barrel lenght 56 cm
Outside diameter of barrel (flat side) 3 cm
Bore diameter 1.5 cm
V-shaped cockspring and trigger mecanism inside lockplate
No marks anywhere
I hope for coments on date, period, area of provenance and any other info anyone can share to help identify or document this firearm.

fernando · 24th July 2010, 07:35 PM

Welcome to European Armoury forum, Cylord.
Impressive example.
Let's see what the experts tell us about it.
Un gran saludo

Fernando

Matchlock · 25th July 2010, 06:09 PM

Hi Cylord,

This is not a military musket but the remnants of a ca. 1760 East German or Polish wheel-lock short hunting rifle (German Stutzen); the horn inlay in the stock might be original, then it's Silesian. Most probably though it's a 19th century 'embellishing' work.

The lock is of the plainest and latest form, with some elements missing from the left inside - see screw holes! The trigger is a crude replacement. As it is a rifle, it must have had a set trigger which is also missing now. The fore end is broken off, and so is the ramrod finial.

I would not even touch it, to be honest, but then, my fellow forum members know that my standards are strict and uncompromising. This does not have to be true for everybody - to each his own!

Best,
Michael

Fernando K · 25th July 2010, 10:30 PM

Google translation ... and not only :

Hello everyone:

I live in Argentina, and i do not know english. I can only say that this is a child's rifle, for some important person, to be tought how to handle a firearm. The short barrel confirms this. There are a few specimens in some museums.

Affectionately. Fernando

Original Spanish:
Hola a todos:

Resido en Argentina, y no sé inglés. Solamente puedo decir que este es un rifle de niño, para algún personaje importante, para enseñar a manejar un arma de fuego. El corto cañón así lo certifica. Hay en los museos algunos ejemplares.

Afectuosamente. Fernando

Matchlock · 27th July 2010, 06:50 PM

Sorry, Fernando K,

This is by no means a rifle made for a child; if so it would not only have a short barrel but all other proportions, lock and stock, would be smaller as well. They, however, are of average adult size.

It is, as I said, a Stutzen for huntig in underwood, as they are still built today.

Best,
Michael

cylord21 · 1st August 2010, 02:52 AM

Sorry for the late answer.
Un saludo Fernando thanks for the wellcome.

Michael, certainly it is a hunting rifle, i could figure it out for the animals engraved on the inlay. What i don't know is if the term musket is use only for military and rifle for hunting ?.

. Is there something to look for or a way to know if inlay is original or later embellisment please let me know. As for the holes on the left side of the lock, one is for the screw to attach lock to stock, the other one i don't know what it stand for, but not for a transmission chain as this is not a self spanning wheellock. The trigger is not a trigger, it is a piece o small diameter rod flatten on one end and screw it through a hole to the inside of the stock. The broken fore end has been smooth out but up to a point as to not to interfere with inlay work (later embellisment work?). There are other broken parts like both ramrod holder, one is almost completely missing and the fore end one is only half (both were done using same material as inlay, bone), it has also some stock repairs. Can you tell what does the sliding piece of the stock and its compartement/hole is for. My compliments to your knowledge and following strict standards is the way to go, thanks.

Fernando K, michael is correct the rifle is short but heavy and the stock is too big for a boy's hand to properly reach and pull the trigger, saludos.

Vicente

Fernando K · 26th July 2010, 03:03 PM

Hola a todos:

Resido en Argentina, y perdonarán que no escribo en inglés.

Este no es un rifle corto de caza, sino un rifle para niño (boy`s rifle). El largo del cañón así lo certifica. Si hacemos una reproducción a escala, veremos que no es un rifle con un cañon corto, sino que todo está en proporciones, con una culata menor que lo común.

Como bien ha dicho Matchlock, le falta el cubrecazoleta (cover-pan), su leva y su resorte.

Afectuosamente

Fernando Keilty
Argentina

PD: Escribo este post por segunda vez. No sé que ha pasado, pero no se publicó.

24th July 2010, 07:25 PM	#1
cylord21 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Caracas - Venezuela Posts: 15	Wheellock musket Hello everybody, my first post in this section and it has been some time since my last post on Ethnographic Weapons, but reading often. I have come across this wheellock musket that i want to share and learn about it since i don't know much on the subject. Specs are as follow German stock ? decorated with inlay and engraved bone, pronounced cheek piece and trigger guard shaped grip Total lenght 88.5 cm Octagonal barrel lenght 56 cm Outside diameter of barrel (flat side) 3 cm Bore diameter 1.5 cm V-shaped cockspring and trigger mecanism inside lockplate No marks anywhere I hope for coments on date, period, area of provenance and any other info anyone can share to help identify or document this firearm. Attached Images

25th July 2010, 06:09 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Cylord, This is not a military musket but the remnants of a ca. 1760 East German or Polish wheel-lock short hunting rifle (German Stutzen); the horn inlay in the stock might be original, then it's Silesian. Most probably though it's a 19th century 'embellishing' work. The lock is of the plainest and latest form, with some elements missing from the left inside - see screw holes! The trigger is a crude replacement. As it is a rifle, it must have had a set trigger which is also missing now. The fore end is broken off, and so is the ramrod finial. I would not even touch it, to be honest, but then, my fellow forum members know that my standards are strict and uncompromising. This does not have to be true for everybody - to each his own! Best, Michael Last edited by Jim McDougall; 27th July 2010 at 06:55 AM.

25th July 2010, 10:30 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 668	Google translation ... and not only : Hello everyone: I live in Argentina, and i do not know english. I can only say that this is a child's rifle, for some important person, to be tought how to handle a firearm. The short barrel confirms this. There are a few specimens in some museums. Affectionately. Fernando Original Spanish: Hola a todos: Resido en Argentina, y no sé inglés. Solamente puedo decir que este es un rifle de niño, para algún personaje importante, para enseñar a manejar un arma de fuego. El corto cañón así lo certifica. Hay en los museos algunos ejemplares. Afectuosamente. Fernando Last edited by fernando; 27th July 2010 at 05:08 PM.

24th July 2010, 07:35 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,675	Welcome to European Armoury forum, Cylord. Impressive example. Let's see what the experts tell us about it. Un gran saludo Fernando

27th July 2010, 06:50 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Sorry, Fernando K, This is by no means a rifle made for a child; if so it would not only have a short barrel but all other proportions, lock and stock, would be smaller as well. They, however, are of average adult size. It is, as I said, a Stutzen for huntig in underwood, as they are still built today. Best, Michael

1st August 2010, 02:52 AM	#6
cylord21 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Caracas - Venezuela Posts: 15	Sorry for the late answer. Un saludo Fernando thanks for the wellcome. Michael, certainly it is a hunting rifle, i could figure it out for the animals engraved on the inlay. What i don't know is if the term musket is use only for military and rifle for hunting ?. . Is there something to look for or a way to know if inlay is original or later embellisment please let me know. As for the holes on the left side of the lock, one is for the screw to attach lock to stock, the other one i don't know what it stand for, but not for a transmission chain as this is not a self spanning wheellock. The trigger is not a trigger, it is a piece o small diameter rod flatten on one end and screw it through a hole to the inside of the stock. The broken fore end has been smooth out but up to a point as to not to interfere with inlay work (later embellisment work?). There are other broken parts like both ramrod holder, one is almost completely missing and the fore end one is only half (both were done using same material as inlay, bone), it has also some stock repairs. Can you tell what does the sliding piece of the stock and its compartement/hole is for. My compliments to your knowledge and following strict standards is the way to go, thanks. Fernando K, michael is correct the rifle is short but heavy and the stock is too big for a boy's hand to properly reach and pull the trigger, saludos. Vicente

26th July 2010, 03:03 PM	#7
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 668	Hola a todos: Resido en Argentina, y perdonarán que no escribo en inglés. Este no es un rifle corto de caza, sino un rifle para niño (boy`s rifle). El largo del cañón así lo certifica. Si hacemos una reproducción a escala, veremos que no es un rifle con un cañon corto, sino que todo está en proporciones, con una culata menor que lo común. Como bien ha dicho Matchlock, le falta el cubrecazoleta (cover-pan), su leva y su resorte. Afectuosamente Fernando Keilty Argentina PD: Escribo este post por segunda vez. No sé que ha pasado, pero no se publicó.