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#1 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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Alan: Like so many "non-traditional" martial arts, what we now call "Mixed Martial Arts" has morphed many times since the Gracies introduced BJJ to the world at UFC1. Personally, I agree with your analysis that wrestlers have the best base for modern MMA. This is, in my opinion, due primarily to the combination of superior conditioning, strength and techniques obtained through wrestling's grueling training regimen. However, as we saw in those early UFC tournaments, while high level wrestlers were able to compete with BJJ stylists, it wasn't until the wrestlers learned to finish (with strikes and submissions) that they began to dominate MMA competition. While some fighters rely heavily on their base art and are known as "submission specialists" or "strikers", the reality is that success in MMA today requires the ability to employ advanced grappling, striking, take-downs (and take-down defense) and submissions. Today's elite MMA competitors usually employ: a. Wrestling take downs/grappling; b. BJJ "guard" and submissions; c. Muay Thai elbows, knees and kicks; d. Western boxing punches. Often, you will see a fighter with years of (wrestling, BJJ, Boxing, MT, Karate, Judo, etc.) competition decide to compete in MMA. Those guys will, regardless of their base art, go from school to school training in the individual disciplines. In recent years, schools and camps have sprung up where an integrated system of MMA is being taught and most competitive fighters now train in this fashion. I have long been of the opinion that there generally isn't a "best" martial art. Most practitioners of striking arts, if they train sufficiently long and hard, will become good strikers, etc. Modern MMA in general (and BJJ in particular) has, however, directed a much-needed spotlight on the shortcomings of traditional martial arts insofar as combat is concerned. Back to your original inquiry--my comment was really not accurate. Bouncing from traditional art to traditional art really nets one very little if insufficient time is spent to progress past the basics. Cross training can be intellectually and physically rewarding, but it will not often make one a great fighter. Training in a style that selects the effective techniques from multiple sources and discards the ineffective, however, will. Bruce Lee's Jeet Kun Do is often considered by many to be the first true "MMA", and he stressed this exact point. Best, Andrew |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,247
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I agree that there's no best martial art. Moreover, in the purest sense, mixed martial arts as currently practiced are a sport, and are only very partial martial arts. It's too bad we can't call it modern pankration, because that's what it is.
These days, the best martial art (and it is truly mixed) is probably practiced by SEAL Team 6 and their special forces brethren around the world. They use it for killing people on the battlefield, and that's what truly martial arts are for. I point to the SEALs only because they seem to be pretty effective at what they do, though they're enormously expensive on a per-warrior basis. One could equally argue for that various guerrilla groups around the world (especially those currently using AK-47s and IEDs, as in Afghanistan) as the most effective martial arts, in a cost-efficiency sense. After all, they've cost the US multiple trillion dollars, and they still go on fighting. Best, F |
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#3 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
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As Kipling said in one verse of Arithmetic on the Frontier.. A scrimmage in a Border Station- A canter down some dark defile Two thousand pounds of education Drops to a ten-rupee jezail. The Crammer's boast, the Squadron's pride, Shot like a rabbit in a ride Spiral |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,592
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Hi,
Being a walking stick user these days the W.E. Fairbairn school of 'dirty tricks' is perfectly adequate for my purposes but having seen the attached I may switch allegiances. ![]() ![]() ![]() Regards, Norman. |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,167
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,855
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Thank you Andrew.
Alan. |
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#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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I would agree only if you define "true" martial arts as those techniques actually employed to kill, maim and injure the opponents. However, in a civilized society, we cannot kill, maim or injure our training partners and opponents. The only way to effectively practice these things is to stop short of the ultimate intended result... |
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#8 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,247
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Certainly our society has martial arts and sciences at every scale, from sports to back alleys to nuclear war. Being an American, I just think it's hypocritical to ignore the modern military (the biggest the world has ever seen) in a discussion of martial arts, and to focus on any particular sport as the "best martial art." This isn't criticizing MMA--even the military uses it for non-lethal combatives. Rather, it's pointing out an enormous blind spot in any definition of "martial" that doesn't include the military. |
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#9 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
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Gentlemen
I really do not see the connection here between MMA, Navy Seals AK-47s and collecting antique weapons? ![]() ![]() |
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#10 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,200
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As a martial artist I am a real cut up?
![]() Uh.......Filipino martial arts also use bladed weaponry? ![]() |
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#11 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
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Also I believe the discussion was originally oriented to Civilian/Competitive MMA; not Military; so let's stay on that level if we continue at all . |
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#12 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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![]() In deference to my fellow staff members and the subject matter of this forum, however, I'm going to close this thread. I'm happy to continue the discussion via email or PM. |
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