Interesting Kris for comments

Bill M · 28th March 2007, 05:51 PM

Overall length 22"
Blade Length 17.5"

Horn handle with ivory or tricadna shell cap. Looks more like tricadna

I am very curious about this piece and would welcome comments.

Ferguson · 28th March 2007, 06:03 PM

Absolutely stunning. Simply elegant. Can't offer any other insights. Bill, you've got the best toys!

The pattern in the blade is superb.

Steve

Edit, Oh one thing. The baca baca looks like a replacement made from sheet brass.

David · 28th March 2007, 06:06 PM

I dare say that looks like a pamored piece ya got there Bill. It would be interesting to see what some warangan would do for it.

It also has rather well formed "sogakan" and a very Indonesian "sekar kacang". Given all these factors i am inclined to suggest that this is not a Moro kris, but an Indo one, or at least made by an Indo smith who may have relocated.
We might have to move this one to the keris forum.

David · 28th March 2007, 06:07 PM

Oh, did i say, that's sweet!?

Bill M · 28th March 2007, 06:46 PM

I am quite curious about it. Indo / Moro?

carlos · 28th March 2007, 07:49 PM

BEAUTIFUL KRIS!!

IS FROM BORNEO?

CONGRATULATIONS FOR THIS PIECE
CARLOS

Bill · 28th March 2007, 07:59 PM

Very interesting kris, I don't recall seeing a straight blade "18thC" before. The blade tip seems to be in-between a stabbing & slashing sword. From what I can recall all the "18thC", I have seen, have a more defined point. Nice example of crossover from keris to kris. As far as "Indo smith who may have relocated", I think this kris preceeds the Philippine kris & a "relocated" smith wouldn't just start making a "kris" just because he is on, what is now, Philippine soil. Simular pattern to a wavy kris RSword & myself have posted before.

Lew · 28th March 2007, 08:34 PM

I think this center kris of mine is late 18th or early 19th century it exhibits a narrow blade and a cruder ganja but it seems more Moro than Bill's.

Lew

kai · 28th March 2007, 09:20 PM

Hello Bill,

I'm pretty sure this is an ethnic Malay example - Riau, Straits or even eastern Sumatra.

I wouldn't rule out Borneo/Brunei but most examples collected from Borneo seem to have originated from Sulu (or being crafted in the same style) with some trade blades from Mindanao thrown in the mix. Also, I don't recall any pamor blade from Borneo nor Moro provenance, especially not this pamor (even welded in low contrast).

The gangya configuration is keris-like and doesn't fit into Cato's categories. So, all bets are off on this piece... However, the carving of the blade is really nicely done and I'd guess it has some real age. I'm less convinced of the fittings, especially the clamp might be a quite recent replacement.

BTW, it's easy to tell ivory from giant clam shell with the help of a reasonable magnifying glass - the latter is quite porous and shows different growth rings.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 28th March 2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

I don't recall seeing a straight blade "18thC" before.

I have a possible contender which might be from Sulu. Not yet in a publishable condition though...

BTW, could you please post a close-up of your piece, Lew? I agree that this also seems to be Moro.

Quote:

Nice example of crossover from keris to kris. As far as "Indo smith who may have relocated", I think this kris preceeds the Philippine kris & a "relocated" smith wouldn't just start making a "kris" just because he is on, what is now, Philippine soil.

I think you have it backwards, kinda: While the kris best known from the Moro evolved from Malay/Indonesian keris, any extant pieces whose construction speaks for an origin in Malaysia or Indonesia seem to be younger than the oldest Moro kris. I'd postulate that these were crafted after (extensive and well established) contact with Moro traders and most likely inspired by Moro trade blades.

Regards,
Kai

kino · 29th March 2007, 08:48 PM

Good catch Bill!
Cost a pretty penny, though!

28th March 2007, 05:51 PM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Interesting Kris for comments Overall length 22" Blade Length 17.5" Horn handle with ivory or tricadna shell cap. Looks more like tricadna I am very curious about this piece and would welcome comments. Attached Images

28th March 2007, 07:49 PM	#6
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	BEATIFUL KRIS BEAUTIFUL KRIS!! IS FROM BORNEO? CONGRATULATIONS FOR THIS PIECE CARLOS

28th March 2007, 08:34 PM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I think this center kris of mine is late 18th or early 19th century it exhibits a narrow blade and a cruder ganja but it seems more Moro than Bill's. Lew Attached Images

28th March 2007, 06:03 PM	#2
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Absolutely stunning. Simply elegant. Can't offer any other insights. Bill, you've got the best toys! The pattern in the blade is superb. Steve Edit, Oh one thing. The baca baca looks like a replacement made from sheet brass.

28th March 2007, 06:06 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,098	I dare say that looks like a pamored piece ya got there Bill. It would be interesting to see what some warangan would do for it. It also has rather well formed "sogakan" and a very Indonesian "sekar kacang". Given all these factors i am inclined to suggest that this is not a Moro kris, but an Indo one, or at least made by an Indo smith who may have relocated. We might have to move this one to the keris forum.

28th March 2007, 06:07 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,098	Oh, did i say, that's sweet!?

28th March 2007, 06:46 PM	#5
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I am quite curious about it. Indo / Moro?

28th March 2007, 07:59 PM	#7
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Very interesting kris, I don't recall seeing a straight blade "18thC" before. The blade tip seems to be in-between a stabbing & slashing sword. From what I can recall all the "18thC", I have seen, have a more defined point. Nice example of crossover from keris to kris. As far as "Indo smith who may have relocated", I think this kris preceeds the Philippine kris & a "relocated" smith wouldn't just start making a "kris" just because he is on, what is now, Philippine soil. Simular pattern to a wavy kris RSword & myself have posted before.

28th March 2007, 09:20 PM	#9
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,252	Hello Bill, I'm pretty sure this is an ethnic Malay example - Riau, Straits or even eastern Sumatra. I wouldn't rule out Borneo/Brunei but most examples collected from Borneo seem to have originated from Sulu (or being crafted in the same style) with some trade blades from Mindanao thrown in the mix. Also, I don't recall any pamor blade from Borneo nor Moro provenance, especially not this pamor (even welded in low contrast). The gangya configuration is keris-like and doesn't fit into Cato's categories. So, all bets are off on this piece... However, the carving of the blade is really nicely done and I'd guess it has some real age. I'm less convinced of the fittings, especially the clamp might be a quite recent replacement. BTW, it's easy to tell ivory from giant clam shell with the help of a reasonable magnifying glass - the latter is quite porous and shows different growth rings. Regards, Kai

29th March 2007, 08:48 PM	#11
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 999	Good catch Bill! Cost a pretty penny, though!