Yataghan from Napoli?

[Valjhun]

Just finished on ebay and I've forgot to bid on it

Has that type of weapon an appropriate italian name?

Anybody knows that marking?

[TVV]

1. Why Italian?
2. Why Naples?
3. Could this be a reused blade from something else?

[Valjhun]

There was a type of sword, similar to the turkish yatagan in Napoli, during the 19th century if I'm not wrong.

Judging from the type of decoration and the marking on the blade, I would say that this one could be a Naples YAT.

Perhaps Jim can put a word on it, with hus admirable knowledge.

[ariel]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...yataghan+italy
BTW, what happened to your pics?

[Valjhun]

Hmm.... I've pasted links directly from ebay. It seems that the seller has allready withrdrew them. That is a pitty. It was really a remarkable piece.

I can tell the auction number: 160288278190

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Valjhun

There was a type of sword, similar to the turkish yatagan in Napoli, during the 19th century if I'm not wrong.

Judging from the type of decoration and the marking on the blade, I would say that this one could be a Naples YAT.

Perhaps Jim can put a word on it, with hus admirable knowledge.

I would love to learn more, especially with examples and references.

[Valjhun]

Originally Posted by TVV

I would love to learn more, especially with examples and references.

Well me to... especially 'cos that specific one was very very nice indeed

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Valjhun

There was a type of sword, similar to the turkish yatagan in Napoli, during the 19th century if I'm not wrong.

Judging from the type of decoration and the marking on the blade, I would say that this one could be a Naples YAT.

Perhaps Jim can put a word on it, with hus admirable knowledge.

Thank you for the very kind words Valjhun! but more hittin' the books a lot than knowledge
Wish I could have seen this one...curiosity is killin me !

All the best,
Jim

[Valjhun]

That italian yataghan emerged on the ashokaarts page. You can see the pictures there.

Any further comments?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Valjhun

That italian yataghan emerged on the ashokaarts page. You can see the pictures there.

Any further comments?

This is still really intriguing me, but I couldnt get anything on the Ashoka site that looked like what you're describing. If anybody can get link or a way to get these photos it would be great.

It was interesting looking back at that 2001 discussion RSword and I had on some Italian naval swords I think with yataghan type blades ("Armi Bianchi Militaire Italiene", Calamendrei, p345) a resource I wish I still had!!
The illustrations are gone from the thread, but these swords seem to date from early 19th century, possibly Labruna workshop in Naples. There was also discussion on Illyrian units of France in Adriatic regions possibly having a yataghan type sword. The yataghan type blade became very popular on bayonets across Europe in the 19th century, even the U.S. had this type bayonet.

I doubt if there was a specific term to a yataghan type sword from Italy, but it seems the style was certainly likely found in weapons from there.

All the best,
Jim

[spiral]

Here you go Jim.

linky


Spiral

[Norman McCormick]

Hi All,
Have found this info about Pandours thought it may be of interest.
Pandours, a widely used name for Balkan irregulars, originated in troops raised in 16th Century Dalmatia under Venetian rule, who in 1748 were organized into a police unit to guard the border with Turkish Herzegovina. The French retained this force and its organization when Dalmatia was acquired in 1805. The Pandours were initially deployed in suppressing pro-Russian rebellions and engaging the Tsar's troops in 1806 before serving as the escort to Marshal Marmont's baggage during the 1809 war and later joining the forces of the Illyrian Provinces. This information was derived from ' Napoleon's Balkan Troops ' by Vladimir Brnardic.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi All,
Have found this info about Pandours thought it may be of interest.
Pandours, a widely used name for Balkan irregulars, originated in troops raised in 16th Century Dalmatia under Venetian rule, who in 1748 were organized into a police unit to guard the border with Turkish Herzegovina. The French retained this force and its organization when Dalmatia was acquired in 1805. The Pandours were initially deployed in suppressing pro-Russian rebellions and engaging the Tsar's troops in 1806 before serving as the escort to Marshal Marmont's baggage during the 1809 war and later joining the forces of the Illyrian Provinces. This information was derived from ' Napoleon's Balkan Troops ' by Vladimir Brnardic.
Regards,
Norman.

Thank you Norman, this is really great additional information. I think this is probably one of the most esoteric theaters of the Napoleonic period, and certainly one with the least published material on it (in English at least).
I know that I had a British M1796 light cavalry sabre with curious markings on it (CsA) and for years tried to discover what they meant. Eventually, thanks to Richard Dellar, I found that these were to a regiment at Castel San Angelo in c.1804 most likely.

The pandours greatly influenced the use of auxiliary units along with standing army and line regiments, which were later widely used by French, and German armies influenced by these Austrian forces. It is known that von Trenck's units greatly favored the yataghan, and this of course influenced the weapons chosen in French, and apparantly Italian officers of these units.
The only reference I have seen that illustrated weapons close to this Italian made yataghan and the French one I mentioned, is "Les Armes Traditionelles de l'Europe Centrale" by Iaroslav Lebedynsky, showing some of these, with at least one example being a combination weapon.

I think the Ashoka weapon is an important example, and it would be great to see if other such examples are out there. There is the one that Rsword came up with in 2001 as well.

All best regards,
Jim