Unknown French Sword

corrado26 · 19th November 2022, 04:59 PM

I hope that someone here is able to help. The identification of this obviously French sword from the time of the Revolution is very difficult. It ressambles the swords of the Ecole du Mars, but has a much simpler hilt and the scabbard is totally different. First thought that this could be an altered sword of the Ecole du Mars is certainly wrong - in this case there should be traces of manipulation at the hilt, but there is nothing to be seen. The wooden scabbard is covered with light brown, but rather aged velvet. As there are no rings or a hook at the scabbard I suppose that this sword has been worn by aid of a leather device.

The total length is 620 mm, the blade is 485 mm and has a width of 47 mm. The total weight is 1,282 g. Such a piece is neither drawn by Aries nor in the book of Buigné. So I hope that some French collectors can help

Jim McDougall · 19th November 2022, 06:05 PM

I would look forward to hear views also from those here who specialize in French arms. This example has the distinctive features of the cadets sword from the Ecole du Mars (1794) including the Phrygian cap symbolic of liberty used in the Revolution, so of course thought would be simply a less embellished variant.

There are any number of speculations that might be plausible as this weapon does maintain that Phrygian cap distinctly so possibly a sidearm for organized units of Revolutionaries? perhaps fashioned by makers of the original Ecole swords?

Battara · 20th November 2022, 08:48 PM

Looks similar to French artillery swords of the mid 1800s

Peter Hudson · 7th December 2022, 02:36 PM

Here it is...Please see https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/539235755356190900/ Interesting with its apparent Nimcha style Quillons and hand guard.

Regards,
Peter Hudson.

corrado26 · 7th December 2022, 03:14 PM

Sorry, but this is another sword and well known and in use by the guys of the military school of St.Cyr. The piece in question is an other thing, compare the hilt and the scabbard, which are completely different.

Peter Hudson · 7th December 2022, 03:44 PM

Good point and I saw some variants with and without quillons and handguiard...and suspect the sword in various similar forms appeared over about 20 or 30 years ..

Please see https://tresors.nice.fr/oeuvre/glaiv...l'attester. [/B] from which I QUOTE." The students of the Ecole de Mars are equipped with a uniform and an antique saber inspired by short, straight Roman swords. An iron and brass weapon that is more decorative than functional, its design is sometimes attributed to Jacques-Louis David, although none is known to attest to this. If the name of the artist has been put forward, it is probably because of the costume projects he produced in 1794 at the request of the Committee of Public Safety, thus fulfilling a wish of the Popular and Republican Society of the Arts in clothing material. David's proposal for the military dress will be copied to provide the uniform for the students of the School of Mars. The weapon consists of a straight two-edged blade and a brass handle, molded and chiselled with ribbed scales, which ends in a dome. Three curved iron quillons stand out from a rectangular crosspiece under which appears a Phrygian cap in relief. The scabbard, consisting of two wooden splints, is covered with red cloth. It ends with a rectangular brass leaf trim decorated with seven-stranded palmettes and a wider, rounded dart decorated with a ribbed palm. The iconography of the sword is scarce, it appears at the earliest in an Academy of a pupil of the School of Mars, painted around 1796 by an anonymous artist from the group known as the "Primitives". In the 19th century, the Pre-Raphaelite painter John Everett Millais (1829-1896), represented him in a painting entitled The Romans leaving Britain exhibited at the Royal Academy in 18653. The subject of the work, inspired by Raphael Holinshead's Chronicles of the History of England (1577) has as its theme the departure of the Roman legions at the end of the period of occupation of the British Isles. Authentic, reconstructed or adapted for other uses, several swords are known in museums, such as the one in the old collections of the Château de Malmaison which was worn by the actor François-Joseph Talma (1763-1826). Work restored in 2007 by the Olivier Morel workshop".UNQUOTE.

19th November 2022, 04:59 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Unknown French Sword I hope that someone here is able to help. The identification of this obviously French sword from the time of the Revolution is very difficult. It ressambles the swords of the Ecole du Mars, but has a much simpler hilt and the scabbard is totally different. First thought that this could be an altered sword of the Ecole du Mars is certainly wrong - in this case there should be traces of manipulation at the hilt, but there is nothing to be seen. The wooden scabbard is covered with light brown, but rather aged velvet. As there are no rings or a hook at the scabbard I suppose that this sword has been worn by aid of a leather device. The total length is 620 mm, the blade is 485 mm and has a width of 47 mm. The total weight is 1,282 g. Such a piece is neither drawn by Aries nor in the book of Buigné. So I hope that some French collectors can help Attached Images

7th December 2022, 03:44 PM	#6
Peter Hudson Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 314	Good point and I saw some variants with and without quillons and handguiard...and suspect the sword in various similar forms appeared over about 20 or 30 years .. Please see https://tresors.nice.fr/oeuvre/glaiv...l'attester. [/B] from which I QUOTE." The students of the Ecole de Mars are equipped with a uniform and an antique saber inspired by short, straight Roman swords. An iron and brass weapon that is more decorative than functional, its design is sometimes attributed to Jacques-Louis David, although none is known to attest to this. If the name of the artist has been put forward, it is probably because of the costume projects he produced in 1794 at the request of the Committee of Public Safety, thus fulfilling a wish of the Popular and Republican Society of the Arts in clothing material. David's proposal for the military dress will be copied to provide the uniform for the students of the School of Mars. The weapon consists of a straight two-edged blade and a brass handle, molded and chiselled with ribbed scales, which ends in a dome. Three curved iron quillons stand out from a rectangular crosspiece under which appears a Phrygian cap in relief. The scabbard, consisting of two wooden splints, is covered with red cloth. It ends with a rectangular brass leaf trim decorated with seven-stranded palmettes and a wider, rounded dart decorated with a ribbed palm. The iconography of the sword is scarce, it appears at the earliest in an Academy of a pupil of the School of Mars, painted around 1796 by an anonymous artist from the group known as the "Primitives". In the 19th century, the Pre-Raphaelite painter John Everett Millais (1829-1896), represented him in a painting entitled The Romans leaving Britain exhibited at the Royal Academy in 18653. The subject of the work, inspired by Raphael Holinshead's Chronicles of the History of England (1577) has as its theme the departure of the Roman legions at the end of the period of occupation of the British Isles. Authentic, reconstructed or adapted for other uses, several swords are known in museums, such as the one in the old collections of the Château de Malmaison which was worn by the actor François-Joseph Talma (1763-1826). Work restored in 2007 by the Olivier Morel workshop".UNQUOTE. Last edited by Peter Hudson; 7th December 2022 at 04:02 PM.

19th November 2022, 06:05 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,941	I would look forward to hear views also from those here who specialize in French arms. This example has the distinctive features of the cadets sword from the Ecole du Mars (1794) including the Phrygian cap symbolic of liberty used in the Revolution, so of course thought would be simply a less embellished variant. There are any number of speculations that might be plausible as this weapon does maintain that Phrygian cap distinctly so possibly a sidearm for organized units of Revolutionaries? perhaps fashioned by makers of the original Ecole swords?

20th November 2022, 08:48 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Looks similar to French artillery swords of the mid 1800s

7th December 2022, 02:36 PM	#4
Peter Hudson Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 314	Here it is...Please see https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/539235755356190900/ Interesting with its apparent Nimcha style Quillons and hand guard. Regards, Peter Hudson.

7th December 2022, 03:14 PM	#5
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Sorry, but this is another sword and well known and in use by the guys of the military school of St.Cyr. The piece in question is an other thing, compare the hilt and the scabbard, which are completely different.