A blunderbuss with an early lock

[fernando]

So according to what is registered, the dog lock system preceded the real flint lock and saw action to around 1700. Hence this example is a relic. With a 48 cms. barrel shortened from that of a musket and having its muzzle 'abacarmatado' ('blunderbussized'), it has signs of being Portuguese, as per its triggerguard in a scallop shape, for one.
The suggestive suspension ring visibly dates from the time this gun was transformed into a 'handy' blunderbuss.
Caliber circa 16 m/m. Total length 83 cms. Weight 2728 grs.

Anyone here has with this kind of pieces ... or may give an opinion about this one ?

.

[Pukka Bundook]

Good morning Fernando,

This is a very interesting looking piece.
I know next to nothing of Portuguese arms, but can say that by the style of the stock, and the tang screw entering the tang from below, plus the dog -lock, that I would say this piece is from the1690's at any rate.
Earlier locks often were attached with three sidenails rather than the two we see here, but the lock is very archaic looking and I don't think newer than I suggest.
The buttstock shape also says from the 1690's rather than early 18th century.

I recall something about muskets being reduced in length in this manner, but not well enough to say anything further!
Again, an interesting arm!

Richard.

[fernando]

Thank you Richard: observations well noted.
Musket barrels being reduced in length used to be a rather common exercise. In Portugal, for one, during troubled periods (Peninsular and thereabouts) people mainly in rural places had local smiths to assemble parts of muskets left back by either side armies and build hand made blunderbusses. For statistically reasons, most setups were made with British parts, namely locks and shortened barrels. The basic reason for the barrel shortening was, more than the need to used them in confined places, like from inside carriages, the practice to go out at night and hide them under one's coat, for eventual defence against assailants. Other cases like this one posted, i guess, would be to shorten the barrel from an integral musket, for the same purpose.

[Pukka Bundook]

I note Fernando, that it has a sling loop, so a sling could pass around the body and over the opposite shoulder, in the same manner that a Royal Mail B-buss would be carried. Very useful on a coach or mounted on horseback.

If only it could talk!

Richard.

[Fernando K]

Hello

Only to add that the screw that closes the jaws ends in a ring, common in Mediterranean locks

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Shakethetrees]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello

Only to add that the screw that closes the jaws ends in a ring, common in Mediterranean locks

Affectionately. Fernando K

I suspect the screw is a replacement. A very minor consideration on a gun of this age!

A very nice weapon, and one that could easily find a home in my pile.

[fernando]

Thank you guys for your kind and wise considerations ...

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

I note Fernando, that it has a sling loop, so a sling could pass around the body and over the opposite shoulder, in the same manner that a Royal Mail B-buss would be carried. Very useful on a coach or mounted on horseback.
If only it could talk!...

I don’t think the hanging loop was a for a formal shoulder ‘bandolier’; maybe for a belt hanging hook, so that you had your hands free. It could even be to hang the gun on the wall, when at rest. As you say, if it could speak …

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello
Only to add that the screw that closes the jaws ends in a ring, common in Mediterranean locks
Affectionately. Fernando K

Gracias por la nota, Fernando

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

... A very nice weapon, and one that could easily find a home in my pile.

Considering you already have a pile, you don’t need this one more .

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... About the stock- I'm assuming its 'wormy ash', based on the worm holes? Or do other woods get those pesky moth larvae as well. ...

Well captain, the collector fellow who sold me this piece is a timber man. He reminds that walnut is a rather wormy wood; of which potentially this stock was made of.

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

...Has the barrel any proofs?

So far i don’t discern any proof marks, neither on the barrel nor in the lock, under the heavy patina.

Originally Posted by iskender

gentlemen ; Sorry for calling my carbine a rifle as it has no rifling and that is a inacurat therm for it. .It is Just the fakt that in switzerland most of the men call every "rifle" that looks like a broomstick a " Flinte" even when it is a full auto assault rifle ! gretings iskender

Ah, the typology of shoulder guns. In my language they are generically called espingardas; an ancient type may be called mosquete, a later short one a carabina and the ones with flared muzzles (blunderbusses) are bacamartes.

Concernung the 'flinte' ... here for such attribution we call it pederneira (from the latin pretinariu- petrinu= stone) whereas the Spanish call it chispa (spark).

[Pukka Bundook]

Fernando,

Re the sling bar;
this swivel on your blunderbuss is Exactly of the type fitted to the guns carried on British mail coaches. The gun could hang down at the side, leaving the hands free, as the guard was also responsible for blowing the coach horn.
The sling worked in a manner similar to a carbine sling, over the shoulder with the gun hanging down on the opposite side.
I am not saying this gun Was an English coaching blunderbuss as I don't think it was, but I believe it was carried in this fashion beyond any real doubt.

As an experiment, run a cord through the loop and suspend it over your shoulder and see how it hangs. :-)

Best regards,

Richard.