Borneo ?? Sumatra ??

Dajak · 3rd November 2006, 12:28 PM

Is this Item from Borneo or from Sumatra

CharlesS · 3rd November 2006, 12:33 PM

This is a toughie. The braided hilt wire seems to say Borneo, but the blade says Sumatra.

Very interesting piece.

VVV · 3rd November 2006, 01:52 PM

Ben,

Could you please also show us a close up of the blade?
At first glance the hilt and blade looks very Aceh-region, but sometimes it's also found in Jambi as well as in South Borneo.
In Borneo usually the bud is at a 90 degrees angle instead.
Also the lower part of the handle usually is round in Aceh, not octagonal, as well as in Aceh it often has more carvings.
The blade, from a distance, doesn't look like the ones found in Borneo among the Malays at the coast.
But neither does it look like the regular blade combo with this kind of hilt in Aceh (Peudeung).
But the braiding, as Charles noticed, looks very Borneo.

Another alternative is Jambi.
I noticed that this kind of hilt sometimes is found there, less carved and combined with other kind of blades than in Aceh (the Peudeung shape).
But I only have a few reference pictures of this.

Tricky piece.

Michael

Ian · 3rd November 2006, 03:42 PM

Ben:

I like very much the clean looks and lines of this sword.

I will be interested in hearing where it comes from because I used to have another similar sword several years ago (no pictures unfortunately) that also had a braided wire handle. Never quite sure where it came from either -- thought it was Sumatran but could have been from S. Borneo.

Cheers,

Ian.

Dajak · 3rd November 2006, 10:22 PM

Hi if we look in the data base off the museums off the Netherlands
this piece is from Borneo

There is also a picture in Quer Durch Borneo that has a sword with an handle like this

The brass wire we see only in Borneo on the Hilt never in Sumatra

blade form we see on other Islands off Indonesia

It is always difficult to say if 2 Islands close together

Michael wich part off the blade you wanna close up

Rick · 4th November 2006, 12:18 AM

Here is a similar wire braid (without the twist) on a kris .
Sulu ?
Maguindanao?

Mytribalworld · 13th November 2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Is this Item from Borneo or from Sumatra

Hi Ben,

this type of blade is quite common in Banjar (South Borneo)
I've also seen a mandau with this type of blade and I have a sword from Banjar with this type of blade.
pics will come later.

Dajak · 22nd November 2006, 06:44 AM

Hi Arjan thanks I am waiting for the pics

Did you see something like it in the Leiden Museum ???

Ben

Battara · 22nd November 2006, 06:49 PM

On some of these examples and others I have noticed that the dots and inlays are brass on the blades. Is this a later 19th-20thc motif or also earlier?

Dajak · 23rd November 2006, 07:43 AM

Hi no it depends on the area where the sword is coming from

Ben

3rd November 2006, 12:28 PM	#1
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Borneo ?? Sumatra ?? Is this Item from Borneo or from Sumatra Attached Images

3rd November 2006, 01:52 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Ben, Could you please also show us a close up of the blade? At first glance the hilt and blade looks very Aceh-region, but sometimes it's also found in Jambi as well as in South Borneo. In Borneo usually the bud is at a 90 degrees angle instead. Also the lower part of the handle usually is round in Aceh, not octagonal, as well as in Aceh it often has more carvings. The blade, from a distance, doesn't look like the ones found in Borneo among the Malays at the coast. But neither does it look like the regular blade combo with this kind of hilt in Aceh (Peudeung). But the braiding, as Charles noticed, looks very Borneo. Another alternative is Jambi. I noticed that this kind of hilt sometimes is found there, less carved and combined with other kind of blades than in Aceh (the Peudeung shape). But I only have a few reference pictures of this. Tricky piece. Michael Last edited by VVV; 3rd November 2006 at 02:58 PM. Reason: added info

4th November 2006, 12:18 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	Here is a similar wire braid (without the twist) on a kris . Sulu ? Maguindanao? Attached Images

3rd November 2006, 12:33 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,855	This is a toughie. The braided hilt wire seems to say Borneo, but the blade says Sumatra. Very interesting piece.

3rd November 2006, 03:42 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,167	Ben: I like very much the clean looks and lines of this sword. I will be interested in hearing where it comes from because I used to have another similar sword several years ago (no pictures unfortunately) that also had a braided wire handle. Never quite sure where it came from either -- thought it was Sumatran but could have been from S. Borneo. Cheers, Ian.

3rd November 2006, 10:22 PM	#5
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi if we look in the data base off the museums off the Netherlands this piece is from Borneo There is also a picture in Quer Durch Borneo that has a sword with an handle like this The brass wire we see only in Borneo on the Hilt never in Sumatra blade form we see on other Islands off Indonesia It is always difficult to say if 2 Islands close together Michael wich part off the blade you wanna close up

22nd November 2006, 06:44 AM	#8
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Arjan thanks I am waiting for the pics Did you see something like it in the Leiden Museum ??? Ben

22nd November 2006, 06:49 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,200	On some of these examples and others I have noticed that the dots and inlays are brass on the blades. Is this a later 19th-20thc motif or also earlier?

23rd November 2006, 07:43 AM	#10
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi no it depends on the area where the sword is coming from Ben