Three spears for comment

Henk · 24th December 2005, 05:31 PM

I bought three spears.

Any ideas about their origin?

Battara · 24th December 2005, 09:00 PM

Henk,

They look Indonesian, except the one that looks somewhat barbed. That one puzzles me, but does look a little African to me (but just a guess).

Justin · 25th December 2005, 02:44 AM

I agree ,the first two are probably Indonesian,but the last barbed one could be Indonesian or African.

All nice pieces,congrats!

Henk · 25th December 2005, 10:10 AM

Thanks for your comments Battara and Justin,

But Indonesian for the first two puzzles me a bit.
If i compare these blades to my tombaks, they differ so much. The blades are smooth like they are polished but still wear the signs of forging. The surface of the tombaks are rough and wear the signs of etching with warangan.
The base of the blades differ also to the tombaks. The peksi of the tombak is round and the angle of the smallest blade wich is good visible is square.
My tombaks all have a round mendak shape forged ring were the peksi ends and the blade starts, but I know that not every tombak has such a methuk. At that point the blade of the tombak have edged sides while the spear blades have thick unsharp edges. Those blades look so unindonesian to me that I really doubt they come from Indonesia.

Justin · 26th December 2005, 05:06 AM

Not all Indonesian stuff is pamor.I am sure I have seen both the first two spears pictured in 'Weapons of the Indonesian Arch.' I could be wrong but I think they are Sumatran, and not necessarily 'tomboks'.

Henk · 26th December 2005, 10:41 AM

A bit too much focused on pamor, I guess. You're right, Justin. I will take a look in my books if I run up to such sumatran spears. Thanks for putting me back on earth

erikscollectables · 19th August 2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

I bought three spears.

Any ideas about their origin?

The first is Batak to me the second also North Sumatran - maybe Aceh or also Batak - the third is a riddle....

katana · 19th August 2010, 02:33 PM

The third spear does seem African to me.....possibly a Zande 'makrigga' . There seems to be a fine wire 'woven' collar, which is similar to some decoration found on African weapons.....could you post a better picture of the 'collar' ?

Regards David

Henk · 19th August 2010, 08:15 PM

David,

I hope these pictures give you the information you want. And of course I hope you can enlighten us

The shaft could be cane like Rick mentioned in the other thread of texspearchunker. Or maybe an african bamboo specie. The typical bamboo knots are missing on this shaft.

Regards, Henk

katana · 19th August 2010, 10:01 PM

Hi Henk,
that is the type of wire-work I have seen on a few African spears....the wire 'coiled' (spring like) around a central wire and then wrapped around the shaft. However, I am sorry I cannot remember the origins of those spears at the moment

...will do some 'digging' The very fine wire wrapped above is probably 'telephone' wire or coil windings from small electric motors. I do not think it very old ....my guess around mid 20th C.

Kind Regards David

Henk · 19th August 2010, 10:42 PM

David,

Hope you can dig up the info. Would apreciate it very much.

The very fine wire is yellow copper also. Was telephone wire or coil windings from small electric motors not red copper wire? I used to break up some of that stuff in my younger years with friends in an attempt to do some technical time spending

I cann't remember seeing yellow copper wire in those things then.

Your age guess could be very correct. It would surprise me if this one is much older.

Thanks and regards, Henk

24th December 2005, 05:31 PM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Three spears for comment I bought three spears. Any ideas about their origin? Attached Images

19th August 2010, 08:15 PM	#9
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	David, I hope these pictures give you the information you want. And of course I hope you can enlighten us The shaft could be cane like Rick mentioned in the other thread of texspearchunker. Or maybe an african bamboo specie. The typical bamboo knots are missing on this shaft. Regards, Henk Attached Images

24th December 2005, 09:00 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Henk, They look Indonesian, except the one that looks somewhat barbed. That one puzzles me, but does look a little African to me (but just a guess).

25th December 2005, 02:44 AM	#3
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	I agree ,the first two are probably Indonesian,but the last barbed one could be Indonesian or African. All nice pieces,congrats!

25th December 2005, 10:10 AM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Thanks for your comments Battara and Justin, But Indonesian for the first two puzzles me a bit. If i compare these blades to my tombaks, they differ so much. The blades are smooth like they are polished but still wear the signs of forging. The surface of the tombaks are rough and wear the signs of etching with warangan. The base of the blades differ also to the tombaks. The peksi of the tombak is round and the angle of the smallest blade wich is good visible is square. My tombaks all have a round mendak shape forged ring were the peksi ends and the blade starts, but I know that not every tombak has such a methuk. At that point the blade of the tombak have edged sides while the spear blades have thick unsharp edges. Those blades look so unindonesian to me that I really doubt they come from Indonesia.

26th December 2005, 05:06 AM	#5
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Not all Indonesian stuff is pamor.I am sure I have seen both the first two spears pictured in 'Weapons of the Indonesian Arch.' I could be wrong but I think they are Sumatran, and not necessarily 'tomboks'.

26th December 2005, 10:41 AM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	A bit too much focused on pamor, I guess. You're right, Justin. I will take a look in my books if I run up to such sumatran spears. Thanks for putting me back on earth

19th August 2010, 02:33 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	The third spear does seem African to me.....possibly a Zande 'makrigga' . There seems to be a fine wire 'woven' collar, which is similar to some decoration found on African weapons.....could you post a better picture of the 'collar' ? Regards David

19th August 2010, 10:01 PM	#10
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Henk, that is the type of wire-work I have seen on a few African spears....the wire 'coiled' (spring like) around a central wire and then wrapped around the shaft. However, I am sorry I cannot remember the origins of those spears at the moment ...will do some 'digging' The very fine wire wrapped above is probably 'telephone' wire or coil windings from small electric motors. I do not think it very old ....my guess around mid 20th C. Kind Regards David

19th August 2010, 10:42 PM	#11
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	David, Hope you can dig up the info. Would apreciate it very much. The very fine wire is yellow copper also. Was telephone wire or coil windings from small electric motors not red copper wire? I used to break up some of that stuff in my younger years with friends in an attempt to do some technical time spending I cann't remember seeing yellow copper wire in those things then. Your age guess could be very correct. It would surprise me if this one is much older. Thanks and regards, Henk