Afghan Pistol

rickystl · 19th January 2019, 05:42 PM

Hello All. Here is a new addition. I believe this pistol was an Afghan bring-back at some point. But is more interesting than most I have seen. It's plain, robust, and undecorated. And made to be a working gun versus a tourist item.
At first, I thought the markings on the lock plate might be spurious judging from the original photos. But after receiving the pistol, I'm confident it's a genuine lock from a British Light Dragoon pistol from the early 19th Century. The lock and markings match exactly. And works/sparks perfectly. The barrel is .57 caliber, 9" long (possibly shortened during the period) and has British proof marks. But I can't make out the marks. The bore is in very good shape with just a partial coating of light rust. No corrosion. The vent hole in the barrel lines up perfectly with the pan. The barrel band, butt cap, trigger guard, and side plate are all hand made. The lock plate screws are genuine Military with good European cut threads. So I believe the screws are genuine with the lock plate. The stock is also hand made locally but with much better lock inletting than you normally see on these guns. But inside the lock mortise there is a stamp marked HERBERT in perfect English letters. Hmmmm. Curious. Don't have a clue what the connection would be (?) Maybe someone on the European Forum might know ?
A Google search turned up something interesting. This exact pistol was sold at Rock Island Auction, along with two other flintlock pistols on June 25, 2016, Lot # 2190. I bought it from a shooter/hobbiest on another forum.
So my impression is that this is an Afghan made pistol utilizing an original lock and barrel. And a good example of their custom of making guns with what ever combination of surplus parts were available, and hand making the rest.

I just wish I knew what the connection of the HERBERT stamp means ? Anyway picture heavy. Any comments most welcome. Thanks for looking.
Rick

rickystl · 19th January 2019, 05:44 PM

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rickystl · 19th January 2019, 05:46 PM

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corrado26 · 19th January 2019, 06:17 PM

I beliefe that this pistol has been made in another country!
In the second half of the 19th century Liège gunmakers tried to buy as much as possible surplus muzzleloader weapons or their single parts in all countries of Europe. These mostly percussion arms have been retransfered to flintlocks and sold into the colonies and lots of still undevellopped countries in the middle east or South - Amerika. A huge deal with lots of money to make!! The French call these weapons "Armes de Traite" .
Your pistol is certainly and without no doubt made at Liège under use of an original British lock and barrel but got a complete new stock. The name HERBERT is surely not the name of an Afghani but of the Belgian who made this stock for your pistol.
corrado26

kahnjar1 · 19th January 2019, 07:35 PM

Hi Rick,
Very nice pistol but I do have some observations. Although the lock itself may possibly be an original, I do not believe that the Crown and GR look to be the quality of English engraving. Also the word DUBLIN?? and whatever is underneath it do not look right to me.
Re the Proof marks....if you can post a clear pic of these I should be able to help. Certainly the crowned V is a view mark used by English Proof Houses. The others are not clear enough to identify.
Stu

fernando · 19th January 2019, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

... I do not believe that the Crown and GR look to be the quality of English engraving. Also the word DUBLIN?? and whatever is underneath it do not look right to me...

Liege fantasy ?

.

19th January 2019, 05:42 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Afghan Pistol Hello All. Here is a new addition. I believe this pistol was an Afghan bring-back at some point. But is more interesting than most I have seen. It's plain, robust, and undecorated. And made to be a working gun versus a tourist item. At first, I thought the markings on the lock plate might be spurious judging from the original photos. But after receiving the pistol, I'm confident it's a genuine lock from a British Light Dragoon pistol from the early 19th Century. The lock and markings match exactly. And works/sparks perfectly. The barrel is .57 caliber, 9" long (possibly shortened during the period) and has British proof marks. But I can't make out the marks. The bore is in very good shape with just a partial coating of light rust. No corrosion. The vent hole in the barrel lines up perfectly with the pan. The barrel band, butt cap, trigger guard, and side plate are all hand made. The lock plate screws are genuine Military with good European cut threads. So I believe the screws are genuine with the lock plate. The stock is also hand made locally but with much better lock inletting than you normally see on these guns. But inside the lock mortise there is a stamp marked HERBERT in perfect English letters. Hmmmm. Curious. Don't have a clue what the connection would be (?) Maybe someone on the European Forum might know ? A Google search turned up something interesting. This exact pistol was sold at Rock Island Auction, along with two other flintlock pistols on June 25, 2016, Lot # 2190. I bought it from a shooter/hobbiest on another forum. So my impression is that this is an Afghan made pistol utilizing an original lock and barrel. And a good example of their custom of making guns with what ever combination of surplus parts were available, and hand making the rest. I just wish I knew what the connection of the HERBERT stamp means ? Anyway picture heavy. Any comments most welcome. Thanks for looking. Rick Attached Images

19th January 2019, 05:44 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	MORE PICS......... Attached Images

19th January 2019, 05:46 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	STILL MORE......... Attached Images

19th January 2019, 06:17 PM	#4
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	I beliefe that this pistol has been made in another country! In the second half of the 19th century Liège gunmakers tried to buy as much as possible surplus muzzleloader weapons or their single parts in all countries of Europe. These mostly percussion arms have been retransfered to flintlocks and sold into the colonies and lots of still undevellopped countries in the middle east or South - Amerika. A huge deal with lots of money to make!! The French call these weapons "Armes de Traite" . Your pistol is certainly and without no doubt made at Liège under use of an original British lock and barrel but got a complete new stock. The name HERBERT is surely not the name of an Afghani but of the Belgian who made this stock for your pistol. corrado26

19th January 2019, 07:35 PM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Hi Rick, Very nice pistol but I do have some observations. Although the lock itself may possibly be an original, I do not believe that the Crown and GR look to be the quality of English engraving. Also the word DUBLIN?? and whatever is underneath it do not look right to me. Re the Proof marks....if you can post a clear pic of these I should be able to help. Certainly the crowned V is a view mark used by English Proof Houses. The others are not clear enough to identify. Stu