Chinese River Pirate Sword?

Iliad · 10th October 2012, 12:44 AM

Hi all,
This is a recent purchase, of what the seller thought (but not really sure) is a short sword used by Chinese river pirates in the 1800's. I shall be grateful for any information which the experts can provide.
Best,
Brian

Gavin Nugent · 10th October 2012, 01:26 AM

Hi Brian,

A solid old Dao.

You might find these links helpful in gathering useful information on the subject including the guardless types;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9409
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=hudiedao
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=hudiedao
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=hudiedao

Gav

Jim McDougall · 10th October 2012, 01:39 AM

Hi Brian,
This appears to be an example of the hudiedao paired swords indeed often used in China by martial artists, and sometimes associated with 'river pirates'. I think Gav would have much more information on these, but from my notes and what I have learned from him, these were from around the period noted, mostly 19th c.
A good reference I found was "Chinese Martial Arts Training" by Brian Kennedy and Elizabeth Gao, 2005, which may be online as I know I dont have the book.
These martial artists were actually more security agencies practicing various forms of martial arts including wing chun as I understand.These martial artists would act as bodyguards or protection and hu yuan were the bodyguard and residential protection contingent, while zoubiao were those who guarded convoys and materials. Often the signature pennon or flag of these agents was flown, much in the manner of security warning signs in todays world, to ward off predators.

This seems quite likely to be a 'bringback' souvenier from perhaps the Taipei Rebellion in the 1860s or the Boxer Rebellion 1900.
Personally I think these are fascinating weapons with genuine formidable use by these martial artists in these settings, and in certain cases, many of these individuals did turn to the piracy circumstance.

Nice going!

All the best,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 10th October 2012, 01:40 AM

Hi Gav,
We crossed posts! Hoped you'd come in on this

KuKulzA28 · 10th October 2012, 02:54 AM

I believe in addition to all the good points presented by the above guys, that these blades were sometimes paired with rattan shields and called pai dao aka "shield knife"... other times instead of long knives it was pian dao, hatchet, etc.

Gavin Nugent · 11th October 2012, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

I believe in addition to all the good points presented by the above guys, that these blades were sometimes paired with rattan shields and called pai dao aka "shield knife"... other times instead of long knives it was pian dao, hatchet, etc.

Indeed, the pairing has been seen in old line drawings and is practiced in some martial circles.

10th October 2012, 12:44 AM	#1
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	Chinese River Pirate Sword? Hi all, This is a recent purchase, of what the seller thought (but not really sure) is a short sword used by Chinese river pirates in the 1800's. I shall be grateful for any information which the experts can provide. Best, Brian Attached Images

10th October 2012, 01:26 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	a link Hi Brian, A solid old Dao. You might find these links helpful in gathering useful information on the subject including the guardless types; http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9409 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=hudiedao http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=hudiedao http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=hudiedao Gav

10th October 2012, 01:39 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,947	Hi Brian, This appears to be an example of the hudiedao paired swords indeed often used in China by martial artists, and sometimes associated with 'river pirates'. I think Gav would have much more information on these, but from my notes and what I have learned from him, these were from around the period noted, mostly 19th c. A good reference I found was "Chinese Martial Arts Training" by Brian Kennedy and Elizabeth Gao, 2005, which may be online as I know I dont have the book. These martial artists were actually more security agencies practicing various forms of martial arts including wing chun as I understand.These martial artists would act as bodyguards or protection and hu yuan were the bodyguard and residential protection contingent, while zoubiao were those who guarded convoys and materials. Often the signature pennon or flag of these agents was flown, much in the manner of security warning signs in todays world, to ward off predators. This seems quite likely to be a 'bringback' souvenier from perhaps the Taipei Rebellion in the 1860s or the Boxer Rebellion 1900. Personally I think these are fascinating weapons with genuine formidable use by these martial artists in these settings, and in certain cases, many of these individuals did turn to the piracy circumstance. Nice going! All the best, Jim

10th October 2012, 01:40 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,947	Hi Gav, We crossed posts! Hoped you'd come in on this

10th October 2012, 02:54 AM	#5
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I believe in addition to all the good points presented by the above guys, that these blades were sometimes paired with rattan shields and called pai dao aka "shield knife"... other times instead of long knives it was pian dao, hatchet, etc.