Dapur Carita?

[Sajen]

Dear members,

since I am still unsure by identify dapurs I want to ask you if I am correct by this blade. It has two sogokan and two lambe gajah, a kemban kacang, a ada ada and a petjetan by 11 luk. So I think that this dapur is Carita. I hope the pictures are clear enough.
Someone with mor knowledge than I am can confirm this?

Many thank's in advance,

Detlef

[PenangsangII]

looks like carita keprabhon to me....

[Greybeard]

Carita Keprabhon -- Sabuk Inten ... I always find it difficult to tell the difference between these two 11-luk dapurs. How to distinguish them?

Heinz

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Carita Keprabhon -- Sabuk Inten ... I always find it difficult to tell the difference between these two 11-luk dapurs. How to distinguish them?

Heinz

Dear Heinz,
Easy, see my book page 181... The difference is jenggot, tikel alis, kruwingan, and gusen.
Jean

[Greybeard]

Thank you, Jean. I will have a look this evening after coming home from work.

Heinz

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Thank you, Jean. I will have a look this evening after coming home from work.

Heinz

Hello Heinz,

my way to affect a dapur is that I write down what the blade have and then look to the books I have.

Regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

I believe carita keprabon has two lambe gajah, and sabuk inten has one lambe gajah.

Sabuk inten need not carry kruwingan, but carita keprabon should carry kruwingan.

The 11 luk blade shown has kembang kacang, one jalen, one lambe gajah, greneng, and front & back sogokan. I am not able to see if it has kruwingan and I am only assuming it has tikel alis.

Carita keprabon should have gusen , but this is according to Surakarta pakem, and in other tangguh the gusen may be absent, and the jenggot is always optional.

Where a keris is following the Surakarta pakem, and it carries kruwingan, it naturally follows that it must have gusen, but if the kruwingan are not present, then it cannot have gusen.

Thus, if we set forth the ricikan that define a keris, we should also state the pakem that we are following. I have used two pakem here, one is the pakem presented in Haryono Haryoguritno's book, the other is the Surakarta Pakem.

Haryoguritno gives carita keprabon as:- kembang kacang 1, jalen 1, lambe gajah 2, pecetan, tikel alis, sogokan depan & belakang, sraweyan, greneng, kruwingan 2

The Surakarta Pakem gives carita keprabon as:- sekar kacang, lambe gajah 2, jalen, sogokan, tikel alis, sraweyan, greneng, ri pandan, gula milir

Haryonoguritno gives sabuk inten as:- kembang kacang 1, jalen 1, lambe gajah 1,pecetan, tikel alis, sogokan depan & belakang, sraweyan , greneng.

The Surakarta Pakem gives sabuk inten as:- sekar kacang, jalen, lambe gajah, sogokan, tikel alis, sraweyan, greneng

I've abbreviated the above by ommitting the obvious.

It can be fun to play the Name Game, but with keris there is some variation in those names according to who wrote the rules of the game. What this means is that if we wish to maintain our sanity it is best not to become too pedantic about what ricikan are found in what dhapur, because as soon as we think we know it all, somebody will come along and demonstrate that we don't know quite as much as we think we might.

Here is a diagram that gives names of ricikan according to a system that is accepted in Surakarta.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

Dear Heinz,
Easy, see my book page 181... The difference is jenggot, tikel alis, kruwingan, and gusen.
Jean

Dear Jean,

yes, your book help affect a dapur but most of the time I look inside the book from Haryono Haryoguritno.

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

looks like carita keprabhon to me....

Thank you very much, Carita have been clear because this blade don't have jenggot but I have been unsure which sort of Carita. BTW, the blade still need a warangan, I have just cleaned it from corrosion.

Regards,

Detlef