Sanggot

Robert · 4th September 2010, 05:05 AM

Just picked this up at an auction for little of nothing. A nice little Philippine utility knife with a 9 inch blade. This is the auction picture which is the only one that I have of it at the moment. Would like to know what the possible age on this might be. All comments are more than welcome.

Robert

Robert · 5th September 2010, 05:55 AM

Forgot to post this picture, it shows the marking on the blade.

Nonoy Tan · 5th September 2010, 08:21 AM

This is found in the islands of Panay, Negros and Bohol (Philippines)

Popularly used for slicing food and vegetables, and as a farm tool.

Robert · 6th September 2010, 03:14 AM

Thank you very much for the information Nonoy Tan. Do you know if there is any way of dating this knife by the hilt style, the scabbard or the blade detail?

Battara · 6th September 2010, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonoy Tan

This is found in the islands of Panay, Negros and Bohol (Philippines)

Popularly used for slicing food and vegetables, and as a farm tool.

Might explain the hilt shape. Good to have you back Nonoy Tan.

Reichsritter · 6th September 2010, 07:32 AM

It is also popular in cutting the tender floral branch of the coconut tree to gather Tuba (local alcoholic beverage).

The sanggot is no more than 30 years old (I think), cast and dipped in used oil (subo)... see the black burnt oil trace on the initials and in the blunt part. The local term for the scabbard is called Tagub.

I have 2 of these in our home in Panay, I will ask who is on the initials when I get back home.

Robert · 6th September 2010, 11:09 PM

Reichsritter,
Thank you very much for your help with this knife. The age is what I was most interested in but if you might be able to help with who actually made this that would really be great. One other thing about this knife is that the blade is fairly thin and is flexible. I was hoping that it might be older but it is what it is. Again my thanks for your help.

Robert

Nonoy Tan · 7th September 2010, 11:21 AM

Reichsritter's description of its use is very accurate.

This blade continues to be manufactured and sold to farmers, etc.

This specimen looks used and could be no more than 10 years old. It is definitely one of those blade from the Philippines that deserves more attention.

Battara, thank you.

Robert · 30th April 2012, 06:54 AM

Though not as interesting to many as the more decorative items, I really like these and was fortunate enough to be able to add another of them to my collection. While posting I thought I would add a couple of pictures of the first one as well as the auction pictures of the new addition. Comments are always welcomed.

Nonoy Tan · 30th April 2012, 07:58 AM

[IMG]

Here is a man climbing a coconut tree to collect tuba. Photo taken in 2010.

Robert · 30th April 2012, 08:14 AM

Ah yes, a good sharp knife, high places and alcohol. One of my favorite mixtures.

Thank you for the picture Nonoy Tan.

Robert

nacho · 30th April 2012, 02:20 PM

It is a tuba knife from Panay. This knife has changed little in the last 100 years, so the specific item we are discussing might be a lot older than 30 years. The newer ones (last 30 years) no longer have the characteristic rounded pommel.

The R.O. is most probably the owner's initials. I noticed that the scabbard (tagub) has "Ram..." incised on it. Probably for "Ramon". The "..on" portion appears to have broken off.

The tube gatherer is called a "manangguete" in Iloilo.

DaveA · 21st July 2015, 08:11 PM

Please help me reconcile these (seemingly) competing identifications. Is my knife a Sanggot, a Tuba, or something else entirely?

My knife is shown in the pictures. The hilt is 3 inches long carved in a floral motif that suggests the frond of a fiddle-head fern. The blade is 8 ¾ inches long, 1 inch wide in the middle, and just over ⅛ inch thick at the hilt with slightest taper towards the tip. The edge of the blade is straight, sharpened on one side only. The back side of the blade is convex continuing the curve originating in the hilt. The scabbard is very light wood yet remains in good condition. it is a single piece with an open area carved to accommodate the blade. The scabbard features a deep notch along the edge side of the blade, helping to secure it in the scabbard. A pair of very worn woven strings also spans the open side of the scabbard.

Stone p. 641 "A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor" describes this knife as a "Moro Tuba" knife. Artzi at Oriental Arms also uses this term for a very similar knife (Item #11484).

However, the body of this thread refers to the knife variously as Sanggot or Sangot (meaning sickle). In the Philippines it is used to harvest the stalk of the coconut for use in making a local drink called — Tuba!

My knife has a very old collection tag on the back,

Quote:

VAN LEER COL.
acc 6379
orig 11.
Cat. 1336
Philippine T??

"Van Leer" may refer to Captain Sam Van Leer, a volunteer officer serving in the Philippines during the "Philippine Insurrection" (Source: "Officers of Volunteers for Service in Philippines", Congressional Edition, Volume 5269, U.S. Government Printing Office, 1908 p.85). Other sources indicate Van Leer was on several islands, including Mindanao.

The principal morphological difference I can see between "Sanngot" and "Tuba" knife (in photos and as described) is that the Tuba has a straight blade edge that is perpendicular (more or less) to the hilt. Those labeled "Sanngot" are most often depicted with a concave blade edge. In both cases, the back of the blade is convex.

Although they may be used for the same purpose, I don't think these are the same knife. Could it be that only the Mindanao version has the straight edge?

Ian · 22nd July 2015, 11:59 AM

Dave:

The term sanggot is Cebuano. I do not know the ethnic origin of tuba, but it is likely different. This is common in the Philippines where the same knife has a number of different names, even within the same dialect.

Incidentally, the last part of the tag on your knife reads "Philippine Is." standing for Philippinne Islands, which was their name during the US colonial period in the first half of the 20th C.

I have another example of this knife that has a talibon style hilt indicating an eastern Visayan origin. I have no idea what it might be called in Warai. Will post pictures shortly.

Ian.

DaveA · 22nd July 2015, 04:16 PM

Thanks Ian. I'm glad that you could make out those last letters on the tag.

I understand about the "naming" issue in general and I've been following all the various threads in the forum that relate to that topic.

My key question is whether the "tuba" knife with the straight edge is regarded as "the same" type of knife as the "sanggot" knife with the concave edge? Are these just different names used in different places?

Or, Is this another case like the generic term "parang" where lots of differently shaped blades are conceptually grouped together?

Any insight?

Thanks.

- Dave

5th September 2010, 05:55 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Forgot to post this picture, it shows the marking on the blade. Attached Images

30th April 2012, 06:54 AM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Though not as interesting to many as the more decorative items, I really like these and was fortunate enough to be able to add another of them to my collection. While posting I thought I would add a couple of pictures of the first one as well as the auction pictures of the new addition. Comments are always welcomed. Attached Images

30th April 2012, 07:58 AM	#10
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	[IMG] Here is a man climbing a coconut tree to collect tuba. Photo taken in 2010. Attached Images

22nd July 2015, 11:59 AM	#14
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Dave: The term sanggot is Cebuano. I do not know the ethnic origin of tuba, but it is likely different. This is common in the Philippines where the same knife has a number of different names, even within the same dialect. Incidentally, the last part of the tag on your knife reads "Philippine Is." standing for Philippinne Islands, which was their name during the US colonial period in the first half of the 20th C. I have another example of this knife that has a talibon style hilt indicating an eastern Visayan origin. I have no idea what it might be called in Warai. Will post pictures shortly. Ian. Attached Images

22nd July 2015, 04:16 PM	#15
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Names vs. knives Thanks Ian. I'm glad that you could make out those last letters on the tag. I understand about the "naming" issue in general and I've been following all the various threads in the forum that relate to that topic. My key question is whether the "tuba" knife with the straight edge is regarded as "the same" type of knife as the "sanggot" knife with the concave edge? Are these just different names used in different places? Or, Is this another case like the generic term "parang" where lots of differently shaped blades are conceptually grouped together? Any insight? Thanks. - Dave

4th September 2010, 05:05 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Sanggot Just picked this up at an auction for little of nothing. A nice little Philippine utility knife with a 9 inch blade. This is the auction picture which is the only one that I have of it at the moment. Would like to know what the possible age on this might be. All comments are more than welcome. Robert Attached Images

5th September 2010, 08:21 AM	#3
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	This is found in the islands of Panay, Negros and Bohol (Philippines) Popularly used for slicing food and vegetables, and as a farm tool.

6th September 2010, 03:14 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you very much for the information Nonoy Tan. Do you know if there is any way of dating this knife by the hilt style, the scabbard or the blade detail?

6th September 2010, 07:32 AM	#6
Reichsritter Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 26	It is also popular in cutting the tender floral branch of the coconut tree to gather Tuba (local alcoholic beverage). The sanggot is no more than 30 years old (I think), cast and dipped in used oil (subo)... see the black burnt oil trace on the initials and in the blunt part. The local term for the scabbard is called Tagub. I have 2 of these in our home in Panay, I will ask who is on the initials when I get back home.

6th September 2010, 11:09 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Reichsritter, Thank you very much for your help with this knife. The age is what I was most interested in but if you might be able to help with who actually made this that would really be great. One other thing about this knife is that the blade is fairly thin and is flexible. I was hoping that it might be older but it is what it is. Again my thanks for your help. Robert

7th September 2010, 11:21 AM	#8
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	Reichsritter's description of its use is very accurate. This blade continues to be manufactured and sold to farmers, etc. This specimen looks used and could be no more than 10 years old. It is definitely one of those blade from the Philippines that deserves more attention. Battara, thank you.

30th April 2012, 08:14 AM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Ah yes, a good sharp knife, high places and alcohol. One of my favorite mixtures. Thank you for the picture Nonoy Tan. Robert

30th April 2012, 02:20 PM	#12
nacho Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Makati Posts: 69	It is a tuba knife from Panay. This knife has changed little in the last 100 years, so the specific item we are discussing might be a lot older than 30 years. The newer ones (last 30 years) no longer have the characteristic rounded pommel. The R.O. is most probably the owner's initials. I noticed that the scabbard (tagub) has "Ram..." incised on it. Probably for "Ramon". The "..on" portion appears to have broken off. The tube gatherer is called a "manangguete" in Iloilo.