My Java keris

Johan van Zyl · 1st October 2016, 12:33 PM

As a new member I heartily greet you all. The keris is a brand new interest of mine, and my head is swimming with the new information I have gleaned so far from all kinds of sources. I realize that therein also lies the danger of my being misinformed. That's why I have the greatest of expectations from this forum and I will do my best to make my contributions worthwhile.
I got this keris from an antique dealer who is a family member, and all indications point to it being a Java keris: ukiran, warangka,gandar and pendok all say the same thing. I going to try my hand at posting a few pics, which I hope will be sharp and clear. My first concern is whether I am on a sound footing when I suspect this keris is a genuine antique dating from before 1945. Secondly, I am very much interested to identify the blade pamor. I think it is mlumah. My biggest disadvantage is that this keris is the first and only one I have seen and handled in my 70 years! I am looking forwards to intimately studying this remarkable edged weapon.

David · 1st October 2016, 05:40 PM

Welcome to the forum Johan. I can certainly understand why your head would be spinning for your various sources of information and you are wise to suspect that there is a lot of misleading or outright false information to be found out there on these marvelous blades. And then many things are simply a matter of differences of opinion or belief systems that can't ever truly be settled. My best advice to you would be to take some time searching our archives where you will find all these various opinions, along with a few cold, hard facts, living in residence.

As for your first keris, we could certainly use some larger photos, but they do seem relatively sharp and clear. From what i can see it is indeed an antique keris from Jawa. If you posted photos of the sheath and the hilt we good even place it, dress wise, in a more specific area of that island. I can't really see the pamor pattern very well in these pictures, but the blade looks a bit out of stain anyway so even better photos might not give us a clear answer.

Johan van Zyl · 2nd October 2016, 01:09 PM

Thank you so much David. I will certainly do what you suggest, and start to build a kind of "book of facts" concerning this keris. I am very thankful that I managed to get hold of this one in the undamaged condition it is. The warangka however had separated from the gandar-pendok unit and I have re-attached same by merely using glue. It's nice and firm now.
The first of my various suspicions that I will try to confirm, is that there is no nickel-containing layers in this blade, which means that the blade will not show contrast, and that various iron layers (besides the steel core) are the only types of metal used in the crafting of this blade. Secondly, I am hoping that the layering in this blade and the combination of the layering will eventually lead to a decision on the era (tangguh) out of which this keris originated. Thirdly, I have provisionally established the pamor pattern as mlumah, because the lamination is parallel to the flat surface of the blade.
I am hoping that my improved pics will help all you experienced guys out there to kindly comment further on this wonderful item that has come into my possession. I'm starting with one or two that I have, but others will have to be re-taken.
Johan

Johan van Zyl · 2nd October 2016, 01:55 PM

I really trust these pics are a bit better....
Johan

Sajen · 2nd October 2016, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan van Zyl

I really trust these pics are a bit better....
Johan

It would be really helpful when you would show the complete keris inside the scabbard and a picture similiar the last one in this post from the blade but show the blade complete and maybe a little bit bigger. Welcome to the forum!

Regards,
Detlef

David · 2nd October 2016, 07:00 PM

Thanks for the additional photos Johan. I would second Detlef's photo requests though.
This actually looks like a fairly decent old keris. Again, it is difficult to tell the pamor pattern without seeing this blade in full warangan stain, but i suspect the pattern might possibly be Sada Saler or perhaps one of the adeg (standing) pamor patterns.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd October 2016, 11:14 PM

Based upon what I can presently see I am inclined to place this keris as North Coast, and towards the west. We do need to see full length images in order to place the origin of the complete keris.

The blade alone I also think is North Coast, towards the west. The blumbangan is boto rubuh, and that pretty much eliminates Central Jawa and (probably) most of East Jawa, additionally the ron dha is a bit outside acceptable parameters for Central Jawa and most of East Jawa. The pamor is an adeg pamor, maybe adeg sapu, but probably safer just to give it as adeg, which makes it pamor miring.

Not a bad old keris, and in nice condition.

1st October 2016, 12:33 PM	#1
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	My Java keris As a new member I heartily greet you all. The keris is a brand new interest of mine, and my head is swimming with the new information I have gleaned so far from all kinds of sources. I realize that therein also lies the danger of my being misinformed. That's why I have the greatest of expectations from this forum and I will do my best to make my contributions worthwhile. I got this keris from an antique dealer who is a family member, and all indications point to it being a Java keris: ukiran, warangka,gandar and pendok all say the same thing. I going to try my hand at posting a few pics, which I hope will be sharp and clear. My first concern is whether I am on a sound footing when I suspect this keris is a genuine antique dating from before 1945. Secondly, I am very much interested to identify the blade pamor. I think it is mlumah. My biggest disadvantage is that this keris is the first and only one I have seen and handled in my 70 years! I am looking forwards to intimately studying this remarkable edged weapon. Attached Images

2nd October 2016, 01:09 PM	#3
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Thank you so much David. I will certainly do what you suggest, and start to build a kind of "book of facts" concerning this keris. I am very thankful that I managed to get hold of this one in the undamaged condition it is. The warangka however had separated from the gandar-pendok unit and I have re-attached same by merely using glue. It's nice and firm now. The first of my various suspicions that I will try to confirm, is that there is no nickel-containing layers in this blade, which means that the blade will not show contrast, and that various iron layers (besides the steel core) are the only types of metal used in the crafting of this blade. Secondly, I am hoping that the layering in this blade and the combination of the layering will eventually lead to a decision on the era (tangguh) out of which this keris originated. Thirdly, I have provisionally established the pamor pattern as mlumah, because the lamination is parallel to the flat surface of the blade. I am hoping that my improved pics will help all you experienced guys out there to kindly comment further on this wonderful item that has come into my possession. I'm starting with one or two that I have, but others will have to be re-taken. Johan Attached Images

2nd October 2016, 01:55 PM	#4
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	I really trust these pics are a bit better.... Johan Attached Images

2nd October 2016, 07:00 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	Thanks for the additional photos Johan. I would second Detlef's photo requests though. This actually looks like a fairly decent old keris. Again, it is difficult to tell the pamor pattern without seeing this blade in full warangan stain, but i suspect the pattern might possibly be Sada Saler or perhaps one of the adeg (standing) pamor patterns. Last edited by David; 3rd October 2016 at 05:08 AM.

1st October 2016, 05:40 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	Welcome to the forum Johan. I can certainly understand why your head would be spinning for your various sources of information and you are wise to suspect that there is a lot of misleading or outright false information to be found out there on these marvelous blades. And then many things are simply a matter of differences of opinion or belief systems that can't ever truly be settled. My best advice to you would be to take some time searching our archives where you will find all these various opinions, along with a few cold, hard facts, living in residence. As for your first keris, we could certainly use some larger photos, but they do seem relatively sharp and clear. From what i can see it is indeed an antique keris from Jawa. If you posted photos of the sheath and the hilt we good even place it, dress wise, in a more specific area of that island. I can't really see the pamor pattern very well in these pictures, but the blade looks a bit out of stain anyway so even better photos might not give us a clear answer.

2nd October 2016, 11:14 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,890	Based upon what I can presently see I am inclined to place this keris as North Coast, and towards the west. We do need to see full length images in order to place the origin of the complete keris. The blade alone I also think is North Coast, towards the west. The blumbangan is boto rubuh, and that pretty much eliminates Central Jawa and (probably) most of East Jawa, additionally the ron dha is a bit outside acceptable parameters for Central Jawa and most of East Jawa. The pamor is an adeg pamor, maybe adeg sapu, but probably safer just to give it as adeg, which makes it pamor miring. Not a bad old keris, and in nice condition.