Chinese Gekken (half moon) pole arm

[bvieira]

This pole harm, from the qing dinasty was used by the chinese imperial army infantry to take down cavalry enemies from their horses. Measuring 220 cms would be a fantastic weapon, does anybody know of images/video of this kind of weapon being used ? Maybe some chinese movie ? would like to know more information.

Tks

[Philip]

As far as I am aware these were used by civilians, and were not a military pattern. They have an equivalent in 16th-17th cent. Europe, where they were commonly known as demilune or "half moon". There is a Spanish example in the Metropolitan Museum of Art's collection.

[fernando]

Philip, do you recall the key word/s to locate such example at the Met ?

[fernando]

Bruno, do you mean to say that the term 'Gekken' is the name of this weapon ?
Apparently this is (also ?) the name of some form of Fencing art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gJWs4z5nfA



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[bvieira]

Originally Posted by fernando

Bruno, do you mean to say that the term 'Gekken' is the name of this weapon ?
Apparently this is (also ?) the name of some form of Fencing art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gJWs4z5nfA



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Hello Fernando thats information i got from a book! the "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Weaponry" the book is available online at this url:

https://issuu.com/moseleyroadinc/doc...onry_lowres/20

From my understading gekken means "half moon" in chinese, but there is litle information about this in english, there must exist in chinese!

BV

[fernando]

Originally Posted by bvieira

Hello Fernando thats information i got from a book! the "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Weaponry" the book is available online at this url:

https://issuu.com/moseleyroadinc/doc...onry_lowres/20

From my understading gekken means "half moon" in chinese, but there is litle information about this in english, there must exist in chinese!

BV

I have looked into that link before i posted my question, Bruno. But as i saw plenty other links appointing to gekken being sword fencing, i realized the caption in the picture was wrong, as so often happens.
But i may be wrong, of course.


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[Philip]

Originally Posted by fernando

Bruno, do you mean to say that the term 'Gekken' is the name of this weapon ?
Apparently this is (also ?) the name of some form of Fencing art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gJWs4z5nfA



.

The term "gekken" is irrelevant to the weapon under discussion:
1. The word is Japanese and is literally "moon sword".
2. In Chinese the label "sword" is never applied to these weapons, they are usually regarded as a form of "spade" (chan ) and the common term is yuechan or moon spade.
2a. In Chinese usage, "sword"(jian) belong in their own class, double edged and straight. (the Japanese ken and Vietnamese kiem are the same word.) Curved single edged blades (like sabers) are in the class dao , (literally, knives). The Japanese word tô means the same thing. In the medieval dynasties there was some blurring as applied to some polearm heads, but curved blades of any kind were never jian.
3. The weapon itself is not characteristic of Japan's martial arts tradition though it may have seen limited use in Okinawa which was at one time closely linked to China politically and culturally.

So Fernando, I tend to agree that gekken probably relates to some Japanese system of fencing.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Philip

... So Fernando, I tend to agree that gekken probably relates to some Japanese system of fencing...

Thank you for the enlightening, Filipe .

[Philip]

Originally Posted by fernando

Philip, do you recall the key word/s to locate such example at the Met ?

Nando, I first became aware of the example in the Met by way of Stone's Glossary... page 276, under the entry "Half Moon, Demilune" . So try Half Moon in the Met's online catalog search engine. If no-go, maybe "Medialuna" since the example is attributed to Spain.

[Ren Ren]

https://www.museodelprado.es/colecci...0-9ce631cd5382 In the upper left corner of the picture there is a very interesting Spanish or Neopolitan pole weapon.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

https://www.museodelprado.es/colecci...0-9ce631cd5382 In the upper left corner of the picture there is a very interesting Spanish or Neopolitan pole weapon.

Thank you, the Met example is practically identical to the one in this painting.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

https://www.museodelprado.es/colecci...0-9ce631cd5382 In the upper left corner of the picture there is a very interesting Spanish or Neopolitan pole weapon.

Good shot Ren Ren; the Spanish version of the Media Luna .
(COMBATE DE MUJERES, by José de Ribera, 1636).


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[fernando]

Originally Posted by Philip

Nando, I first became aware of the example in the Met by way of Stone's Glossary... page 276, under the entry "Half Moon, Demilune" . So try Half Moon in the Met's online catalog search engine. If no-go, maybe "Medialuna" since the example is attributed to Spain.

It didn't work either way, Filipe; but it doesn'r matter so much at this stage. Muito obrigado, anyhow.

[bvieira]

Originally Posted by Philip

As far as I am aware these were used by civilians, and were not a military pattern. They have an equivalent in 16th-17th cent. Europe, where they were commonly known as demilune or "half moon". There is a Spanish example in the Metropolitan Museum of Art's collection.

Hello,

I think the civil model you are talking about is a diferent and its usualy refered as the "Monk’s Spade", it has the half moon design but is smaller and very sharp, its also less well contructed that this one, this one is very solid, big and the main objective is not to cut but take down enemies from horses.

Some pictures of the "monks spade"