Moro kris mystery

[mross]

I took a chance on this;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN%3AIT&rd=1

The price was low enough as was my bid that the not so great photos did not deter me. (It usually does). Seller advertised as a 20th C battle kris. Well I got it yesterday. It sure is a mystery to me. The gangya is one piece and not very will defined. But it has two baca-baca and is very tight and solid. It has a very sharp edge and appears to have evidence of a hardned edge but does NOT appear to be laminated. There are signs of it having been forged. On one hand I would say tourist piece but the baca-baca and the possible hardened edge say no. What are your thoughts? The gangya is very poorly done. Right now this is the best I can do for photos. I have no idea what this is.

[David]

Well, your right, we would be able to tell a whole lot from those photos.
But it does look to me as if the baca-baca, ferulle and other silver work on the kakatu are new additions so it probably doesn't mean a much in the final determination of original intention and quality of this piece. From the bad photosit does give the impression of a working sword, not a tourist piece. Just because it doesn't have a seperate gangya doesn't mean it wasn't made to cut people up. AFAIK Moro kris were still made with the intention of being a weapon far past the Cato imposed 1930s seperate gangya date. It does appear to me though that there was a serious drop off in the quality of Moro swords after the 1930s. Send us some better pics when you get a chance.

[kai]

Could this be a Lumad version/interpretation of a Moro kris? I certainly would like to see a decent pic of the gangya area but I've seen quite a few examples with that broad lower gangya and atypical file work (which I'd guess wouldn't be done by a traditional Moro bladesmith). Bagobo/T'boli/Tagakaolo pieces can vary widely in quality - from twisted core examples to poor ones merely clobbered together...

BTW, what's the blade's maximum thickness at the gangya area?

Are the clamps and other hilt fittings made from aluminium? I agree that this is most likely a recent revision/addition.

Regards,
Kai

[mross]

Originally Posted by kai

Could this be a Lumad version/interpretation of a Moro kris? I certainly would like to see a decent pic of the gangya area but I've seen quite a few examples with that broad lower gangya and atypical file work (which I'd guess wouldn't be done by a traditional Moro bladesmith). Bagobo/T'boli/Tagakaolo pieces can vary widely in quality - from twisted core examples to poor ones merely clobbered together...

BTW, what's the blade's maximum thickness at the gangya area?

Are the clamps and other hilt fittings made from aluminium? I agree that this is most likely a recent revision/addition.

Regards,
Kai

Kai, I have to look into the Lumad question, as I know nothing about them. But one impression I had was a copy; I was thinking a Chinese copy since I have seen some crude copies of nihonto. The point does not look right for Moro kris, but it does not look altered either. I can't decide if I would call it crude or amateurish. One other thing the handle is a very crude version/copy of a kakatua
I think the version/interpretation may be right on! Someone went to a great deal of trouble with ornamenting the handle and the clamps. I do think they are aluminum, and they show little signs of wear compared to the blade so I agree it was added much later. I'll measure the thickness and get back to you, I'm at work and don't have the sword with me, but it is very thin compared to my other Moro swords. I am not sure how the seller determined age, perhaps by the one-piece gangya. Just looking at the black rust on the blade and the wear, it gives the appearance of being old. I can’t explain why, but I like it. It feels like a weapon, not a wall hanger

[mross]

Here are a few photos. They are not great either. I only had the camera in my phone to take them with. One day I WILL get a digital camera, really!

Originally Posted by kai

BTW, what's the blade's maximum thickness at the gangya area?

It is about .5 cm at the thickest part of the gangya.

So any ideas?

[kai]

It is about .5 cm at the thickest part of the gangya.

Well, that's really thin - any distal taper? It's hard to tell from the pics but workmanship does seem to be lacking a bit. I tend to view this more as a repro rather than a genuine later example but you're the judge. I'd guess all parts are post WW2, possibly not even vintage. Hope others will chime in, too, since I'm definitely no authority...

Regards,
Kai