Wilah nr 4 for identification

Harley · 6th January 2012, 12:45 PM

This is a smaller one 29 cm without pesi, it looks kind of strange because the pesi is not in the middle.

regards,
Ben

A. G. Maisey · 6th January 2012, 09:49 PM

In terms of physical characteristics, this blade is Tuban, that is, North Coast, however, it is not typical Tuban, because of its size:- Tuban blades are nearly always quite robust. Possibly this is a boys keris, or perhaps a patrem, however for Tuban I would lean more to a keris for a boy, than for a woman, because of the lack of a kraton association with Tuban. The buntut urang troubles me a little, but I could well look a little different in the hand.

Harley · 6th January 2012, 10:00 PM

Thank you again Alan, can you give me advise for a sheath, or is this also the same as central Java.
And do you think that the blade would look better with a new stain?

regards,
Ben

A. G. Maisey · 6th January 2012, 10:14 PM

In the pic, the stain looks OK on my screen. I doubt that I'd play with it.

As for dress, I don't know. If I had this in my hand and needed to dress it, I'd probably opt for sandang walikat, maybe an East Jawa sandang walikat, but I suspect that you may not be able to do an SW, because you need to use a segrek, and this is a specialist tool that has no counterpart amongst western tools.

You could probably do a look-a-like SW by making the gandar section in two halves and gluing together and into the atasan. You'd have the form, but not the correct construction, because a sandang walikat is carved from a single piece of wood.

Maybe a scaled down East Jawa gayaman would work OK too.

Harley · 6th January 2012, 10:42 PM

OK, thanks then i leave it as it is.

I have seen a wile ago a picture of a walikat sheath, but that one has a lose gandar,or is the word sandang meaning that it is from one piece?
I find the idea of a walikat sheath rather nice, it's a whole different shape.
When i was reading the old topic's i came across a picture of a segrek, till then i had now idea what kind of tool it was.

regards,
Ben

A. G. Maisey · 6th January 2012, 11:14 PM

David, yes, only women attached to a court were expected to kill themselves in the event that the court was overrun by an enemy. That's the purpose of the patrem:- to kill oneself.

Ben, 'sandang', or properly 'sandhang', means 'clothing'. 'Walikat' means 'rib'. Thus, "rib dress". Maybe because it resembles a rib, maybe because it is most often worn under a jacket, next to the ribs.

In East Jawa they often make SW with a separate gandar, and sometimes a pendok, in Central Jawa it should be one piece.

David · 6th January 2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Possibly this is a boys keris, or perhaps a patrem, however for Tuban I would lean more to a keris for a boy, than for a woman, because of the lack of a kraton association with Tuban.

Alan, can i take this to mean that a patrem is only proper for women of the court.

6th January 2012, 12:45 PM	#1
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	Wilah nr 4 for identification This is a smaller one 29 cm without pesi, it looks kind of strange because the pesi is not in the middle. regards, Ben Attached Images

6th January 2012, 09:49 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	In terms of physical characteristics, this blade is Tuban, that is, North Coast, however, it is not typical Tuban, because of its size:- Tuban blades are nearly always quite robust. Possibly this is a boys keris, or perhaps a patrem, however for Tuban I would lean more to a keris for a boy, than for a woman, because of the lack of a kraton association with Tuban. The buntut urang troubles me a little, but I could well look a little different in the hand.

6th January 2012, 10:00 PM	#3
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	Thank you again Alan, can you give me advise for a sheath, or is this also the same as central Java. And do you think that the blade would look better with a new stain? regards, Ben

6th January 2012, 10:14 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	In the pic, the stain looks OK on my screen. I doubt that I'd play with it. As for dress, I don't know. If I had this in my hand and needed to dress it, I'd probably opt for sandang walikat, maybe an East Jawa sandang walikat, but I suspect that you may not be able to do an SW, because you need to use a segrek, and this is a specialist tool that has no counterpart amongst western tools. You could probably do a look-a-like SW by making the gandar section in two halves and gluing together and into the atasan. You'd have the form, but not the correct construction, because a sandang walikat is carved from a single piece of wood. Maybe a scaled down East Jawa gayaman would work OK too.

6th January 2012, 10:42 PM	#5
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	OK, thanks then i leave it as it is. I have seen a wile ago a picture of a walikat sheath, but that one has a lose gandar,or is the word sandang meaning that it is from one piece? I find the idea of a walikat sheath rather nice, it's a whole different shape. When i was reading the old topic's i came across a picture of a segrek, till then i had now idea what kind of tool it was. regards, Ben

6th January 2012, 11:14 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	David, yes, only women attached to a court were expected to kill themselves in the event that the court was overrun by an enemy. That's the purpose of the patrem:- to kill oneself. Ben, 'sandang', or properly 'sandhang', means 'clothing'. 'Walikat' means 'rib'. Thus, "rib dress". Maybe because it resembles a rib, maybe because it is most often worn under a jacket, next to the ribs. In East Jawa they often make SW with a separate gandar, and sometimes a pendok, in Central Jawa it should be one piece.