Looking vintage and antique samples of Talibong of Panay Island

[xasterix]

Greetings everyone, hope you and your blades are doing OK.

I've recently acquired a blade that was ID'd as an Iloilo Talibong with a Binukay handle and Linamay blade profile [Linamay-Binukay], circa 1970s, made most likely by the Panay Bukidnon tribe. Would very much appreciate if other members can share their blades from Panay Island, especially vintage and antique ones.

I believe that 'talibong' is similar to 'sundang' and 'itak'- it's a general term across Visayas that simply means 'blade'. In Panay island, a 'talibong' may also refer to a fighting blade.

For reference, here's a link to the 'Filipino Traditional Blades' FB page with a sample of Panay Island talibongs (the names included are the smiths who made them) and their corresponding IDs, indicated as [blade profile - figural head name or utility]

https://web.facebook.com/permalink.p...99561170798116

[Spunjer]

i'll start with these three. would these qualify, or are you looking for a particular profile?

[Sajen]

Here you can see one of my examples, I would call it tenegre: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=Tenegre

Regards,
Detlef

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Here you can see one of my examples, I would call it tenegre: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=Tenegre

Regards,
Detlef

Great piece Detlef! Yes, you are correct in classifying it as Tenegre, with a Kinampit blade profile. I'm interested at the similarities between our pieces (especially on the scabbard part). Although I must say yours is better preserved. I'm curious- how does it handle in terms of weight distribution? Evenly weighted, tip- or hilt-weighted?

[Sajen]

Thank you Xasterix, special for proving the exact name of the blade profile. The sword is without scabbard 621 gram and tip-weighted, fast and nice in the hand. At my scabbard are missing two brass bands which have been in up and down over the leather throat, you can see it by the different patination. When you wish I can take some new pictures at weekend.
I would try carefully to bring back in original form the guard of the handle. It seems to be made from thin sheet so it will be good possible. By the thin guard and scabbbard style I would date yours to the mid of 20th century, my one around the turn of the centuries. Yours is a very nice good example from this time frame. I have a similar example, maybe a little later as yours and not so nice but sadly can't provide pictures since it isn't in my hands in the moment.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Yours is a very nice good example from this time frame. I have a similar example, maybe a little later as yours and not so nice but sadly can't provide pictures since it isn't in my hands in the moment.

Forget that I've once posted it here for discussion: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=visayan

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thank you Xasterix, special for proving the exact name of the blade profile. The sword is without scabbard 621 gram and tip-weighted, fast and nice in the hand. At my scabbard are missing two brass bands which have been in up and down over the leather throat, you can see it by the different patination. When you wish I can take some new pictures at weekend.
I would try carefully to bring back in original form the guard of the handle. It seems to be made from thin sheet so it will be good possible. By the thin guard and scabbbard style I would date yours to the mid of 20th century, my one around the turn of the centuries. Yours is a very nice good example from this time frame. I have a similar example, maybe a little later as yours and not so nice but sadly can't provide pictures since it isn't in my hands in the moment.

Best regards,
Detlef

Saw the pics; looks like a long-lost brother of my sword! You're right, I need to tweak the guard more. It seems that swords of this type were made to be fast and nice; I'd venture a guess that both our swords are from Iloilo. The Panay Bukidnon tribe would most likely have forged our swords as they are famous for their distinct talibongs which they call in their native dialect as "sabre". Looking at our swords- I agree with that label, as I've yet to encounter another vintage/antique that's as nimble.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

i'll start with these three. would these qualify, or are you looking for a particular profile?

They definitely qualify- they're gorgeous! Especially the Bakutan profile with the blade inlay- breathtaking, and I like the rattan wrap known as 'pikit', I don't commonly see that on Panay talibongs

[David]

I posted a WWII era tenegre sometime back that is possibly from Panay. This would be vintage, not antique of course, though it won't be long before it reached that status.
Probably made for a WWII vet as a souvenir, but it has a thck, sharp and nasty blade on it.
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...hlight=Tenegre

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by David

I posted a WWII era tenegre sometime back that is possibly from Panay. This would be vintage, not antique of course, though it won't be long before it reached that status.
Probably made for a WWII vet as a souvenir, but it has a thck, sharp and nasty blade on it.
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...hlight=Tenegre

Another great Talibong with a Kinampit blade profile!

Btw don't be confused when I call it Talibong (as it's a general term for a fighting blade); Tenegre is also a valid term that connotes the blade came from lowlanders. I read there that you were wondering why the sword was dressed up, here's the explanation as recounted by the collector who I bought mine from:

"This is supposedly kept in the house and is only worn during fiestas and other occasions. The owner would wear a white polo shirt and tie the blade behind his back. It is not unusual for them to get into fights when they are inebriated. Most fights were slashing type of movements since apparently they did not want to kill each other. This went on till the late 80s because it was only the local government who maintained peace and order in remote areas. The Philippine Constabulary did not reach many barrios during those days."

Another friend who was very familiar with the ways of the different tribes and locals in the area remarked that it was usually a very fatal warning sign if the owner of a talibong moved his sword from one side of his waist to the other.

Talibong are also a focal point of esoteric practices; a sword is usually 'activated' via secret rituals. Otherwise, if swords do not undergo these, they are considered as 'empty'.

[David]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Another great Talibong with a Kinampit blade profile!

Btw don't be confused when I call it Talibong (as it's a general term for a fighting blade); Tenegre is also a valid term that connotes the blade came from lowlanders. I read there that you were wondering why the sword was dressed up, here's the explanation as recounted by the collector who I bought mine from:

"This is supposedly kept in the house and is only worn during fiestas and other occasions. The owner would wear a white polo shirt and tie the blade behind his back. It is not unusual for them to get into fights when they are inebriated. Most fights were slashing type of movements since apparently they did not want to kill each other. This went on till the late 80s because it was only the local government who maintained peace and order in remote areas. The Philippine Constabulary did not reach many barrios during those days."

Another friend who was very familiar with the ways of the different tribes and locals in the area remarked that it was usually a very fatal warning sign if the owner of a talibong moved his sword from one side of his waist to the other.

Talibong are also a focal point of esoteric practices; a sword is usually 'activated' via secret rituals. Otherwise, if swords do not undergo these, they are considered as 'empty'.

Interesting that my blade would be classified for the same blade profile as Detlef's. True, the both seem to have a false top edge at the tip, but my tip seems more like a clip point. Detlef's bottom edge seems perfectly straight, while mine bellies a bit and curves upward at the tip. Also not visible in my photos is the the reverse side of my blade is perfectly flat, while the side shown in my photos is more concave (in an angular fashion), giving it a similar design to a mandau. I cannot tell for sure if Detlef's blade does this or not. Can you confirm?
I don't believe it was i who was curious about the manner of dress for this blade. While i appreciate your description of cultural usage i'm fairly certain that my example was made for a returning WWII U.S. soldier, especially given the American eagle holding the crossed U.S. and Filipino flags with the word "Victory" on the banner.

[kai]

Would very much appreciate if other members can share their blades from Panay Island, especially vintage and antique ones.

I'm adding a few more for diversity:

1. I'd tend to refer to this 17" blade as ginunting even if it exhibits a false edge & slight belly and leans forward a tad; hilt Bakunawa (= Binukay?). Ilonggo, I'd guess?

2. A basically straight 19" blade - IMHO it seems tough to call this a clip point; with such slender & straight blades the separation between bakutan and linamay seem to blur... BTW, what is the name of this traditional hilt style? Does the distinct scabbard style allow to narrow down its origin?

Regards,
Kai
(pics courtesy of Oliver & Erik)

[kai]

For reference, here's a link to the 'Filipino Traditional Blades' FB page with a sample of Panay Island talibongs (the names included are the smiths who made them) and their corresponding IDs, indicated as [blade profile - figural head name or utility]

https://web.facebook.com/permalink.p...99561170798116

Thanks for all your efforts on the ground!

BTW, what language did you utilize as lingua franca for the given names (Panay pieces)? Any chance to assemble a table specifying the equivalent terms for all ethnic (sub)groups?

Regarding the considerable ethnic/cultural diversity on Panay wouldn't it make sense to at least include Guiramas and Negros Occidental, too?

Regards,
Kai

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks for all your efforts on the ground!

All the credit belongs to the Filipino Traditional Blades team, who have worked tirelessly and pro bono; they've done all the legwork. Like you, I just benefit from their generosity in sharing these data

[David]

Originally Posted by xasterix

All the credit belongs to the Filipino Traditional Blades team, who have worked tirelessly and pro bono; they've done all the legwork. Like you, I just benefit from their generosity in sharing these data

Thanks for clearing this up. What i am about to say does not mean that i believe these categories are incorrect or should not be taken into account. Certainly someone did some research here. Still, this is a commercial company seeking to sell it's product and it is in there best interest to have very specific names and stories for each of the variety of weapons that they sell. The American owner of this company apparently has his own ties to Pekiti-Tirsia Kali martial arts and is guided by this particular school of thought. I did try to do a little research on TFW, but it does not seem possible to find any information about how they determined all the very specific names hundreds of different varieties of edged weapons they make and sell. Some of their modern examples of known varieties of antique weapons look fairly close to form, while others seem well off the mark as far as i can tell. So while it is interesting to find very specific names to variations on the talibong or tenegre is is difficult for me not to apply at least a gain of salt to the information.

[Spunjer]

David, i think you're mistaking TFW with this page, and i assure you, it is not the same. the page that xasterix is referring to is legitimate. i have learned more about Filipino swords on that fb page (Filipino Traditional Blades) than anywhere else, including here. much kudos to the people that's running that page; they've done a lot in regards to researching the hundreds of different swords and knives found throughout the archipelago.
as far as TFW, whatever's on that site are either copied from the swords found all over the internet, sprinkled with what has been posted on this website, and the rest are nothing more that pure fantasy.

again, the Filipino Traditional Blades is no way affiliated with the TFW site that you mentioned. i can't emphasized that enough

[David]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

David, i think you're mistaking TFW with this page, and i assure you, it is not the same. the page that xasterix is referring to is legitimate. i have learned more about Filipino swords on that fb page (Filipino Traditional Blades) than anywhere else, including here. much kudos to the people that's running that page; they've done a lot in regards to researching the hundreds of different swords and knives found throughout the archipelago.
as far as TFW, whatever's on that site are either copied from the swords found all over the internet, sprinkled with what has been posted on this website, and the rest are nothing more that pure fantasy.

again, the Filipino Traditional Blades is no way affiliated with the TFW site that you mentioned. i can't emphasized that enough

Thanks Ron. The problem was that when i googled "Filipino Traditional Blades" the website for "Filipino Traditional Weapons" is what shows up right at the top. My mistake.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

David, i think you're mistaking TFW with this page, and i assure you, it is not the same. the page that xasterix is referring to is legitimate. i have learned more about Filipino swords on that fb page (Filipino Traditional Blades) than anywhere else, including here. much kudos to the people that's running that page; they've done a lot in regards to researching the hundreds of different swords and knives found throughout the archipelago.
as far as TFW, whatever's on that site are either copied from the swords found all over the internet, sprinkled with what has been posted on this website, and the rest are nothing more that pure fantasy.

again, the Filipino Traditional Blades is no way affiliated with the TFW site that you mentioned. i can't emphasized that enough

Thank for the vote of support, Spunjer!!!

Decided to clean the sword further. Hope more people can share their precious talibong / tenegre / sanduko =)