Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 27th November 2008, 09:02 AM   #1
Iliad
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 187
Default Smallsword for I D

Good Morning/Evening everybody,
I have recently acquired a pair of Smallswords, one of which has engravings which puzzle me. They show a man with shaved head but a coiled pigtail; winged; holding something which may be palm branches; odd trousers; bare feet. Since my enthusiasm exceeds my knowledge I am at a loss to understand this. Can someone enlighten me as to the origin of this Smallsword?
Iliad
Attached Images
   
Iliad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2008, 11:36 AM   #2
celtan
Member
 
celtan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PR, USA
Posts: 679
Default

Both are late 18th C., on account of the vestigial pas d'ane. The shape of the knuckle guard on the upper sword suggests is older than the lower.

The figure in question seems to be a winged woman, or a long haired man, probably depicting an angel.

I'm currently auctioning a similar sword, with an identical faceted olive pommel, and with identical scalloped guard as the upper one. This type of triangular-cut blade was known as "hollow".

All of Europe followed the french smallsword designs, so these ones can be english , french, german, dutch etc...

In fact, a very similar sword appears on "Swords and Blades Of the American Revolution", by George C. Neumann, p. 136 #224.
celtan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2008, 06:53 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,945
Default

Very nice pieces Iliad! and nicely done on the assessment Manuel!!! Thank you for the insight on these. Smallswords are usually pretty tough, as you note pretty much everybody followed the French styles, as I have understood as well.
The smallsword is a fascinating weapon, and lines up well with the discussion started on the thread on fencing foils. I hope the discussion on these and other examples will continue!

All best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2008, 06:47 AM   #4
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,945
Default

I have been looking into these two smallswords further, I completely agree with Manuels assessment, and was intrigued by those faceted neoclassic pommels. In "The Smallsword in England" (J.Aylward, 1945, pp.59-64) there is interesting discussion concerning the smallsword rather in decline from between 1775-1785, but it is noted that "...an exception, however, must be made in favor of the cut steel hilts of about 1780, for some of them are not only as charming in thier simplicity as the hilts of the Queen Anne period, but the swords themselves are well designed, beautifully balanced, and absolutely efficient weapons".
The reason I looked into the Aylward reference was to discover more on the faceted pommel on these swords, and found discussion on Mathew Boulton, the innovative Birmingham man who promoted mass production of hilts (and was also the associate of James Watt in developing the steam engine). On p.60, it is noted that his "...cut steel, inlaid steel and faceted steel hilts seem to belong mainly to the period of his partnership with John Fothergill (1762-1781)". In Aylward fig. 29, Boulton's pattern book c.1760-80 shows hilts with crosshatched pommels as seen with these faceted examples.

On p.63, the very simple hilts of the latter 18th century are described mentioning again the use of facets in cut steel, and "...the former double shells of butterfly pattern have coalesced and become a single oval plate rather larger in diameter than the older style of shells, the ricassi are meagre, and the pas d'ane now consist of two rudimentary projections or else of two small half rings connected with the quillons by a little bar".

One of the key issues in identifying English smallswords, was the makers "...regrettable reluctance to inscribe his name upon his work", so that with scabbards gone, the makers are unknown. Boulton was a manufacturer of plate and steel articles, not a cutler, and it is well known that most blades were likely imported. He is thought to have made some silver hilts, which would have borne the marks he placed on his silver plate, but none of the hilts so marked are known.

I would suggest that these two interesting smallswords may well be from the 'Boulton parish' (as Aylward terms the Boulton enterprises) and as seems to be the case, unmarked, probably about c.1780, interestly corresponding with the example sword noted by Manuel (Nuemann, 224.S, p.136). This sword with scalloped oval shell and facetted urn type pommel, may be from the same general shops in the same period, which may have extended as noted to about 1790.

"...as far as England is concerned, it might as well be said that the strokes of Paul's great bell, ushering in the 19th century, at one and the same moment tolled the knell of the small sword".
Aylward, p.64



All best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2008, 12:17 PM   #5
celtan
Member
 
celtan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PR, USA
Posts: 679
Default

This is a cousin of the two shown. Please notice the notched tip, this was a modification performed to cause a widened wound when retrieving the blade from its victim in a duel.

BTW: I'd love to polish the hilt and circular guard, but I always get criticized for doing so. Besides, there seems to be some japanning still present, or is it?

The pommel is non magnetic, as is the grip's wiring. Silver?

Best

Manuel













celtan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2008, 08:56 PM   #6
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,945
Default

Outstanding Manuel!!!
Most definitely has all the elements of one of the swords that this information suggests were produced in some number in Boulton and associates shops around 1770's to 90's. Since he was a silversmith, quite possible to be silver but Im not well versed in metallurgy so cannot say whether that or another metal might be in the pommel.

It is exciting to see smallswords that can be attributed not only to a fairly tight period, but potentially to a maker or in this case, a school that is so closely linked to the industrialization and mass production in England.

One thing that you mention that I consider most intriguing is the blade having a notch to increase severity of wound. This feature is present on numerous sabres and cavalry swords in Europe, and is seldom observed. It seems to be a strictly 18th century practice, and its effectiveness in accomplishing its presumed purpose has been considered questionable. What is most puzzling is why a notch would be placed in the blade back near the tip on a cavalry sabre, which was used in slashing cuts, not thrusts. It is true that some cavalry attacks involved thrust from high tierce, as I understand, but this was the exception, and a notch would seem to increase the potential for the blade becoming lodged. In any case, an interesting subject.

Thank you for posting this example as well. I agree with avoiding too much cleaning...the patina is to me embodied history

All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.