A Batangas Brass Bladed Dagger

Robert · 1st December 2015, 10:08 PM

Here are a few auction photos (i will post better ones after it arrives) of another brass bladed Philippine dagger I just picked up. Rick posted an almost identical one some time ago that Is located here; http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=brass+blade
As I do not know any of the measurements of Rick's example and I am hoping that he will see this and post them here. My example is 17 inches overall with a 12 inch blade and a 5 inch water buffalo horn hilt. I believe both Rick's example and mine come from the Batangas area and though they can easily be used to defend oneself with (like the other brass bladed daggers I have posted) I believe these to be mostly talismanic or ceremonial in purpose. Comments or information on either of these daggers would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 1st December 2015, 10:57 PM

Hello Robert,

great catch!

It was on my watch list but I was irritated by the leather scabbard which coming with the dagger, now I am sure that the scabbard isn't worked for this piece, don't coming from Luzon and is much later.
I would place this very nice dagger around 1900, maybe earlier. I am curious to see better pictures after you have received it.

Best regards,
Detlef

Rick · 1st December 2015, 11:46 PM

Robert,
15 3/8" overall.
Blade 1 1/2 " wide at base; eleven waves counted Jawa style, and 10 1/2" long.

Jealous, you have more brass dots in the hilt than I do.

Ian · 2nd December 2015, 12:16 AM

Hi Robert:

From the shape of the hilt I was thinking more of northern Luzon. Do you have a good provenance for Batangas?

Ian.

Robert · 2nd December 2015, 02:01 AM

Detlef, Thank you for tour thoughts on this piece. I am very happy that seeing as you were also watching it as well that the seller accepted my offer, lowered the price and let me snag it on a Buy It Now without someone else grabbing it up first. I think that the mismatched scabbard threw others off as well.

Rick, Thank you for posting the measurements of your dagger here for comparison. Mine might have more dots, but yours has dots and those neat plates on the sides.

I just noticed that yours and the one in the photos posted below both have the dots and plates on the hilt.

Now I feel cheated.

Ian, What makes me think that these pieces are from Batangas are the hilts themselves, some of the discussions we have had on them here on the forum as well as ones that I have had with Migueldiaz AKA Lorenz from Filhistory. Here are a couple of photos of a sword with a very similar hilt style. I have another that is marked in a similar fashion somewhere and have been trying to locate it to post as well, but no luck so far.

Best,
Robert

Ian · 4th December 2015, 11:23 PM

Robert:

Thank you for the additional pics which show Taal and Bats on the hilt of a most unusual looking sword.I interpret TAAL to mean Lake Taal and BATS to mean Batangas. Lake Taal is a popular tourist vista in Batangas, and a most picturesque spot to visit--young couples find it a romantic place and not too far from Manila for a day trip. There are many legends about this place.

Lake Taal is a freshwater lake in an old volcanic caldera. Within the lake is a second order volcano that also has a lake, and within that lake is another small, third order volcano with a third order lake. Since it references a somewhat "magical" spot, I wonder if the most recent, fanciful sword you posted may have been made more for display than for use.

Ian.

1st December 2015, 10:08 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	A Batangas Brass Bladed Dagger Here are a few auction photos (i will post better ones after it arrives) of another brass bladed Philippine dagger I just picked up. Rick posted an almost identical one some time ago that Is located here; http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=brass+blade As I do not know any of the measurements of Rick's example and I am hoping that he will see this and post them here. My example is 17 inches overall with a 12 inch blade and a 5 inch water buffalo horn hilt. I believe both Rick's example and mine come from the Batangas area and though they can easily be used to defend oneself with (like the other brass bladed daggers I have posted) I believe these to be mostly talismanic or ceremonial in purpose. Comments or information on either of these daggers would be greatly appreciated. Best, Robert Attached Images

2nd December 2015, 02:01 AM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Detlef, Thank you for tour thoughts on this piece. I am very happy that seeing as you were also watching it as well that the seller accepted my offer, lowered the price and let me snag it on a Buy It Now without someone else grabbing it up first. I think that the mismatched scabbard threw others off as well. Rick, Thank you for posting the measurements of your dagger here for comparison. Mine might have more dots, but yours has dots and those neat plates on the sides. I just noticed that yours and the one in the photos posted below both have the dots and plates on the hilt. Now I feel cheated. Ian, What makes me think that these pieces are from Batangas are the hilts themselves, some of the discussions we have had on them here on the forum as well as ones that I have had with Migueldiaz AKA Lorenz from Filhistory. Here are a couple of photos of a sword with a very similar hilt style. I have another that is marked in a similar fashion somewhere and have been trying to locate it to post as well, but no luck so far. Best, Robert Attached Images

1st December 2015, 10:57 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Robert, great catch! It was on my watch list but I was irritated by the leather scabbard which coming with the dagger, now I am sure that the scabbard isn't worked for this piece, don't coming from Luzon and is much later. I would place this very nice dagger around 1900, maybe earlier. I am curious to see better pictures after you have received it. Best regards, Detlef

1st December 2015, 11:46 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Robert, 15 3/8" overall. Blade 1 1/2 " wide at base; eleven waves counted Jawa style, and 10 1/2" long. Jealous, you have more brass dots in the hilt than I do.

2nd December 2015, 12:16 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi Robert: From the shape of the hilt I was thinking more of northern Luzon. Do you have a good provenance for Batangas? Ian.

4th December 2015, 11:23 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Robert: Thank you for the additional pics which show Taal and Bats on the hilt of a most unusual looking sword.I interpret TAAL to mean Lake Taal and BATS to mean Batangas. Lake Taal is a popular tourist vista in Batangas, and a most picturesque spot to visit--young couples find it a romantic place and not too far from Manila for a day trip. There are many legends about this place. Lake Taal is a freshwater lake in an old volcanic caldera. Within the lake is a second order volcano that also has a lake, and within that lake is another small, third order volcano with a third order lake. Since it references a somewhat "magical" spot, I wonder if the most recent, fanciful sword you posted may have been made more for display than for use. Ian.