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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 11
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Hello, Ive had this item for quite a while now in the vain hope that I would see another or a similar to help identify it. When I first saw it on a stall I thought that it was a cut down sword. It measures 22 1/2" overall with the blade length of 17 3/4". Stamped on the ricasso Simson & Co Suhl, and a crowned M on the back. The blade is similar in shape to the butcher bayonet only thinner and 2" shorter. Plain wooden grips that don,t appear to have ever been wired or covered and a heavy steel handguard. When you see my pictures you will understand the need for the long description.
![]() http://s1119.photobucket.com/home/manokent Thanks in advance, Mark. |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,087
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Very interesting sidearm. Unfortunately, I'm clueless. I was going to suggest a German butcher-blade bayonet/sword hilt 'marriage', but as you stated, but specs aren't right for the butcher blade (which is a good thing, because this must be an original and come like this). In any case, I look forward to what the experts in this area will have to say. From the general styling, I'm assuming a dating of early 20th/WWI era, perhaps?
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#3 | |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
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Kudos Mark, for at least offering a response on this anomaly even if, like me, you are a bit baffled by this unusual piece. Its always encouraging when even if we dont really have the answers, we at least show the courtesy of interest to someone who has taken the effort to post something, and offered whatever information they have on the item. Well done Manokent ![]() I think I am with you guys on thinking of the butcher bayonet, and the shape on this blade reminds me a lot of the sawtooth Schmidt & Rubin bayonets (if I recall correctly). In any case, the sabre hilt complete with barred guard of semi basket form is of course atypical for a bayonet. I agree also that this seems to be a hybrid type of 'trench knife' from post WWI. It seems there was instance of refabricating sword hilts with shorter blades for this kind of use in those times near the time of WWII. I know that many of the surplus 'Patton' army swords M1913 sometime around then were cut down to these kind of knives presumably for trench type warfare. It seemed odd to see these huge sheet steel bowl guards on these completely incongruent cut down blades. While not much help Im afraid, I just wanted to add those observations. All the best, Jim |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,224
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nipmuc USA
Posts: 496
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I am not finding the source quickly but Prussian/Bavarian/Austrian Alpen/Mountain artillery swords. The shorties with the plainer P and reverse P guards more regularly regarded as police swords. One or another of the blankwaffen sites but I am not navigating well this morning.
Cheers GC |
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 332
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I have seen this before, supposed to be a semi-official creation, kind of a late boarding cutlass, circa WWI. I also handled a similar item, a yataghan bayonet blade mated to an Austrian foot soldier sword hilt. Alas, I cannot find the reference.
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