Use of swords in American Indian tribes

[Jim McDougall]

I just noticed in the illustration of the Mohican (Mahican) chief posted by David, and holding an impressive ball head war club, he is also wearing a sword which appears to have a karabela type hilt.

This brought to mind the question, why would an American Indian chief be wearing a sword?

A little research noted that this particular chief , Etow oh Koom, while actually Mahican, was one of four chiefs who were taken to England to visit Queen Anne in 1710. This was effectively done by Jan Schuyler, a key figure in Dutch New York, as a diplomatic gesture in coordinating alliances versus the French.

Apparently the four chiefs (the others were all Mohawk), had their portraits painted by as many as three artists. This painting of Etow oh Koom was by Dutch artist Jan Verelst. The items held by these chiefs seem to have been provided by the artists or patrons, and included bow and arrows, a musket and other items including this sword.

It is unclear whether the Native American weapons were brought by the chiefs themselves or had been collected by the Dutch, however the European weapons were of course clearly 'props' (or perhaps diplomatic gifts).
The sword is classified by one reference as an English dress sword, but the style as noted is curiously with karabela hilt, not a form typical in English swords, but East European.

I recall some time ago in a photo of an American Indian chief, I believe Sioux and from around 1870, he was in his lodge, but on the wall behind him was of all things, a Japanese katana! This of course brought all kinds of wild ideas into play....it would have been odd enough to see a sword among Indian weapons.....but a katana?

I later found that he had been one of a group of chiefs who went to Washington DC in a diplomatic venture, and apparently he was gifted this katana which had been among items given by a Japanese embassy earlier. I cannot recall the details, but this was one case of a sword in Indian context.

It appears that swords were present in various cases, but they seem to be more symbolic of leadership or status, and not ever used as weapons.

It would be interesting to look into the presence of swords among American Indian tribes, as obviously they had considerable contact from the earliest European arrivals through the colonial and westward expansion times .

[Lee]

I have always liked the photos presented in Peter Bleed, “ Indians and Japanese Swords on the North Plains Frontier, ” Nebraska History 68 (1987): 112 - 115

[thinreadline]

Very interesting post . From contemporary illustrations it seems common for native Americans to adopt 'trophy' clothing from killed or captured westerners so it seems logical that status weapons such as swords would also have been taken .. so where are the pictures depicting suchlike ? I shall trawl through my books !

[Oliver Pinchot]

Well observed, Jim.
Not only is the hilt of the sword the chief is wearing identifiable; the entire sword is clearly Ottoman work of the latter 17th century, right down to the belt.
Pity more period portraits aren't as well-drawn and detailed as this one.

Ottoman weapons weren't common but they were known (and sought after) in W. Europe. Plenty of W. Europeans traded with or fought the Ottomans in Eastern Europe, notably Captain John Smith (1580-1631) of Jamestown (and Pocahontas) fame.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ It is amazing to see the Ottoman sword on the Warrior Chief...Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5640 for examples of this weapon of Othmanli fame.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Lee

I have always liked the photos presented in Peter Bleed, “ Indians and Japanese Swords on the North Plains Frontier, ” Nebraska History 68 (1987): 112 - 115

Lee, thank you so much for this linked article, which in seeing it is exactly the one I was thinking of, and it was Peter Bleed that I was talking with as we discussed the circumstances of these swords being with American Indians some years back.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Sioux chief Yellow Hair. C1900? ( Looks like it might be a Blucher 1811 )
Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Blackfoot warrior.

[Norman McCormick]

Dog Child with Katana?, Blackfoot tribe, who served in the Northwest Mounted Police.

[Norman McCormick]

Brave Sword, Blackfoot tribe C1885. This one and the one in post 7 could be the same sword, photographers prop?

[machinist]

There is the "sword of the turtle people" from British Columbia.
A kastane that apparently was brought over by the Spanish.

http://infotel.ca/newsitem/similkame...ral-bc/it29759http://infotel.ca/newsitem/similkame...ral-bc/it29759

[Jeff D]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Blackfoot warrior.

Hi Norman,
This sword looks very similar to a sword in the Glenbow museum in Calgary. It might be the same one. This is a Solingen bladed British cavalry sword with a 1821 light cavalry officer's hilt. I will include the museum description.

Jeff

[Rick]

Although to my knowledge there has never been a picture of this sword in the hands of a Sioux or other tribal chief; the Fetterman Massacre Sword was doubtless carried by its captor.

The Fetterman Massacre may well put the debacle at Little Bighorn to the blush.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Rick

Although to my knowledge there has never been a picture of this sword in the hands of a Sioux or other tribal chief; the Fetterman Massacre Sword was doubtless carried by its captor.

The Fetterman Massacre may well put the debacle at Little Bighorn to the blush.

Rick,
Thank you for this, what an incredibly historic sword, and with intriguing and mysterious stories. Apparently this was a Staff & Field officers sabre with blade by Clauberg (Solingen) presented to Lt. George Grummond by his fellow officers in Tennessee (14th Mich. Inf.) in 1863.

This was apparently used in combat at the Fetterman battle Dec. 21, 1866 and indeed taken by a warrior after Grummond fell. It is unknown who or which with tribe the sword was kept, but it was with either Lakota, Cheyenne or Arapaho. It was surrendered to U.S. years later.

It is noted in an auction description that it is alleged that an American Indian warrior named 'Hurts the Enemy' changed his name to 'sword owner' or to that effect. It is unclear how the sword lost the guard, whether damaged or removed, but likely it was used a the ceremonial or status oriented manner, symbolic of power .

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jeff D

Hi Norman,
This sword looks very similar to a sword in the Glenbow museum in Calgary. It might be the same one. This is a Solingen bladed British cavalry sword with a 1821 light cavalry officer's hilt. I will include the museum description.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
I am wondering if this M1821 might have had anything to do with Canadian military use. These were among others quite heavily used among these units, though it would seem there would be markings in accord with that.
It is interesting how tribal traditions and accounts can sometimes be melded into unusual renditions, and absorbed into those of other monumental events such as the Little Big Horn.
As far as I have ever found, there were no swords at LBH, and actually Custer and his men had left their sabres at Ft. Abraham Lincoln. By this time, there was little use of the sword by U.S. cavalry in campaign during the Indian Wars.

Still, regardless of how acquired, the fact is that swords were most definitely present among American Indian tribes and although " ..seldom employed in actual warfare " (Taylor, 2001. p55) they were used symbolically.

All best regards
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

I just wanted to thank everyone for so much great response on this thread!!
Sorry for the blast of entries, but I wanted to respond as much as possible directly to these most important entries and outstanding support.
This is a fascinating topic and I hope we keep the entries coming as we learn more. I have some advantage in material from research some time ago, so I am glad to share as much as I can here, along with the material you guys are bringing in.

[colin henshaw]

An interesting topic Jim, its a shame there are not more posts about Native American weapons on the forum, especially as so many members reside in America...

Here are images from Oldman's early 20th century Catalogue of Ethographical Specimens, that shows a Plains ? Indian sword. It doesn't look like just an old European sword ... I wonder if the early colonists in North America included basic sword blades in their native trade goods inventory along with knife blades, axes, spear points, beads, mirrors etc ?

Regards.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

... I wonder if the early colonists in North America included basic sword blades in their native trade goods inventory along with knife blades, axes, spear points, beads, mirrors etc ?...

No doubt about that, Colin; the world has always been a society of trade. With a glimpse at Spanish XVI century History, you will read that Atahualpa Inca warriors used to pay Pizarro soldiers 1500 gold coins for a horse, 60 for a quartillo (pint) of whine, 50 for a Spanish sword, etc. Certainly this was not an isolated case; only that not all New World natives used to swim in gold.


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[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

An interesting topic Jim, its a shame there are not more posts about Native American weapons on the forum, especially as so many members reside in America...

Here are images from Oldman's early 20th century Catalogue of Ethographical Specimens, that shows a Plains ? Indian sword. It doesn't look like just an old European sword ... I wonder if the early colonists in North America included basic sword blades in their native trade goods inventory along with knife blades, axes, spear points, beads, mirrors etc ?

Regards.

Thank you Colin,
That Oldman catalog is a goldmine! and while I don't have it, I wish I did.
According to Colin Taylor ("Native American Weapons" 2001, p.121) swords were sold to the Eastern Woodlands Indians as early as the 17th c. but these were usually held as weapons of rank .
Apparantly in other cases, particularly in 1820s onward, many swords, mostly surplus British M1796 light cavalry sabres, were sold in America. One key outlet was the Bordeaux Trading Post in Nebraska, but is unclear just how these were diffused, and trade was much more erratic than following set trade routes.

[colin henshaw]

Nice picture from the internet...

[ParikiMark]

Fascinating thread! I learned a lot (which is why I joined this forum).

I could use some help identifying the sword in this photograph of Crooked Hand, a Pawnee Indian. Someone suggested it was a Model 1832 Foot Artillery Sword, which seems plausible. I have another photograph of an Otoe Indian holding a similar sword. I am curious to when and how this model made its way to Nebraska.

The cavalry saber is more common among Plains Indians, which is why this particular model intrigues me. Any comments and help you can furnish me is greatly appreciated!!!

[kronckew]

The French, and by emulation, quite a few other admirers in Europe used a gladius style sword for their non-cavalry foot sloggers, They came in a variety of blade styles with different fullering schemes. I even have one with a double edged yataghan style blade of flattened diamond x-section and no fullers. anyhow, the USA model had rather distinct fullering and a tapering waist blade shape, unlike the Native American's photos which appear to have a straight sided unfullered flat blade profile, more in keeping with a French version. I don't recall the Brits using them tho*. the French settlers in Canada and the Louisiana territories the US aquired may have had french 'gladii' with them. the french used them from 1771 thru about 1870. (the 1771 was a rather nicer eagle shaped grip one.) they were not very practical as weapons as the gladius was designed for use with a shield in close formation. Even roman cavalry used a longer sword called a 'spatha' and so did many infantry after the 1st century a.d.

*- It appears the British Land Transport Corps carried them too, their model looks a lot like the ones in the photo too, and very French, who they likely copied. So, Canada remains a possible source of these Native American 'long knives'. Shame the pics are a bit degraded & do not show more details of the cast brass grips.

Brit sword, 1855 Land Transport model: