keris blade for comment.

capt.smash · 11th March 2005, 12:51 PM

Hi guys i just got this nice Bali blade .Its another nice blade fallen on hard times

placed in poor dress and sold cheep[i cant resist a nice blade ]

.Im asumeing its a bali blade cause its in bali dress and because of its size[40cm from tip to ganja]and high polish and also there is a one eyed demon/deity? engraved at the bottom.There is alot of engraveing around the bottom of the blade,although unfortunately some has worn away[i get the impression that it was once heavily corroded and then re-polished].Of interest to me is the ganja witch has the strange protrusions and after some scrubbing away the dirt and rust with a toothbrush in water i was delighted to find that the two either side of the peksi are infact very intricately chizeled animals[i cant capture them very well in picture but the detail is almost microscopic with individual hairs engraved to make the fur coat]the animal nearest the pecetan im quite sure is a cow and i cant quite make the other one out yet[it is alot more corroded] but im leaning towards a cat/tiger or monkey

[more cleaning should hopefuly make it clearer].Can anyone tell me the significance of these animals?there seems to be a ceremonial feel to it.Any comments and corrections welcome.

Sorry about pic quality my camera is rubbish

capt.smash · 11th March 2005, 06:03 PM

closer inspection reveals that the second animal is almost certainly a tiger and they both apear to be partly submerged in flowing water/river..the nodules near the aring seem to be rocks with water flowing around them.

Henk · 12th March 2005, 11:22 AM

What a shame that this blade is mounted in such a cheap tourist dress.

It is balinese and once it certainly was dressed in a smashing scabbard with a fine ukiran. Unfortunately the mendak is also missing.

In my opinion this is a very good blade. It should be cleaned properly with lime juice and re-etched with arsenic. The figures on the gandja were certainly gilded and the engravings once were gilded too.

Maybe you should spend some money on this fellow to bring it back in the way it once appeared. Maybe Adni of the Malay Art Gallery can give you some advise. If you have the opportunity to restore it you will have a very fine balinese or lombok keris. I think this one is the effort worth.

capt.smash · 12th March 2005, 11:35 PM

Thanks Henk thanks for the reply

yeah its a great shame about the dress but for me the blade is the most important part...this is the second good quality bali blade that i have got in almost identical dress and like the last this is one for keeps and restoration.

Do you have any ideahs on the significance of the animals ?mabe a makers marks or perhaps something to do with a hindu fable or something they are a lovely detail

Rick · 12th March 2005, 11:54 PM

Nah ,
Made in Milwaukee .

Seriously though capt. , thanks for showing me something I have never before seen in a Bali blade .
The Tiger and the Bull are symbols of bravery , no ?

Very interesting features .

Henk · 13th March 2005, 09:42 AM

To be honest I really don't know what the meaning is of those symbols on the keris. Ricks remark is a posibility. I've seen such a keris in good condition in a very serious collection. I was even allowed to keep it in my hands. The only thing I could do at that moment was to put up a face like this,

and enjoying a marvelous keris.

I always thought that such a keris was made for a wealthy person who could afford a keris with gold ornaments. The keris I mentioned had a dress of gold and ivory, that is pointing in such a direction. Symbols of power and strength, reflecting the position of the owner.

Kiai Carita · 26th April 2005, 02:38 PM

Captain Smash' keris from Bali looks very nice. It is a Bali keris like a Javanese keris of the dapur pasopati. The engraving and the carving is intended to be inlaid and wrapped with gold and might have been done anytime. Alot of new tourist keris are made this way. Usualy one would only get the engraving and carving done when one had the money for the gold or one had been given a promotion from the Raja (in Bali never have there been Sultans except visiting).

Although Sultan Agung gave kinatah emas (carved and then wrapped in gold) to everyone of the rank Bupati upwards to celebrate his victory over the kadipaten Pati (with the elephant-lion Gajah Singo symbol on the gandhik), Sultan Agung did not invent the laying of gold on kerises. I have seen Singosari keris with sinarasah (another technique of gold inlay in kerisology) and Singosari was the Java kingdom of 1222-1292, which was founded by Ken Arok who killed Mpu Gandring with the famously coursed unfinished keris.

The use of sandpaper and battery acids in cleaning a keris can very easily change the pamor. Opening the pamor (silak waja) should be done once by the Mpu as part of the prayer of the making of the keris which begins and ends with offerings to the gods. The use of warangan is mistakenly called etching but it is not etching as there is no intent of taking away any part of the blade surface but only to contrast the earthly iron from the heavenly meteorite. The pamor on this blade seems now to be uler lulut (tame caterpillar) believed to bring prosperity and make people believe the speach of the owner.

One traditional method of cleaning a keris is using a wooden trough soak the rusty keris in the water of several coconuts that have fermented for several days. To get this buy several coconuts that are still in their shells and thus still have the water in them. You should be able to hear the water when you shake the nut. Every nut would have between 1/4-1 cup of water in it. This is not coconut milk don't make a mistake and get coconut milk.

Every few days, take the blade out and scrub with lime. Rinse the blade and soak again in the same solution do not change it rather let it ferment further. It can take weeks to clean a very rusty keris but patience is a key component in kerisology.

In Bali lore the bull is assosciated with Andini and is the steed of Syiwa the king of the Gods. Tigers are assosciated with courage, military. In wayang stories Pasopati is one of the keris of the hero Arjuna who together with Krisna is the avatar of the God Wisnu.

I hope this post is useful,
Kiai Carita.

BSMStar · 26th April 2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiai Carita

The use of warangan is mistakenly called etching but it is not etching as there is no intent of taking away any part of the blade surface but only to contrast the earthly iron from the heavenly meteorite.

Hello Kiai Carita,

Just to clarify what you mean... you referred to meteorite in the blade, does the blade contain meteoritic material or are you referring to nickel being added to the iron (and it represents the heavenly)? If meteoritic material is present in the blade, is this common and do you know the source? Thanks.

capt.smash · 27th April 2005, 12:00 PM

Hi guys ive just got a new project blade to work on,its in bad shape with no sign of contrasting pamor.....but does show a layered pattern.Its seems unusualy thick and heavy to me.I got this advertised as "old dagger or bayonet"

and cost me the price of a carton of cigarets.A prime candidate for some cleaning and re-etching...should be fun

11th March 2005, 12:51 PM	#1
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	keris blade for comment. Hi guys i just got this nice Bali blade .Its another nice blade fallen on hard times placed in poor dress and sold cheep[i cant resist a nice blade ] .Im asumeing its a bali blade cause its in bali dress and because of its size[40cm from tip to ganja]and high polish and also there is a one eyed demon/deity? engraved at the bottom.There is alot of engraveing around the bottom of the blade,although unfortunately some has worn away[i get the impression that it was once heavily corroded and then re-polished].Of interest to me is the ganja witch has the strange protrusions and after some scrubbing away the dirt and rust with a toothbrush in water i was delighted to find that the two either side of the peksi are infact very intricately chizeled animals[i cant capture them very well in picture but the detail is almost microscopic with individual hairs engraved to make the fur coat]the animal nearest the pecetan im quite sure is a cow and i cant quite make the other one out yet[it is alot more corroded] but im leaning towards a cat/tiger or monkey [more cleaning should hopefuly make it clearer].Can anyone tell me the significance of these animals?there seems to be a ceremonial feel to it.Any comments and corrections welcome. Sorry about pic quality my camera is rubbish Attached Images

26th April 2005, 02:38 PM	#7
Kiai Carita Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 91	Looking After keris Captain Smash' keris from Bali looks very nice. It is a Bali keris like a Javanese keris of the dapur pasopati. The engraving and the carving is intended to be inlaid and wrapped with gold and might have been done anytime. Alot of new tourist keris are made this way. Usualy one would only get the engraving and carving done when one had the money for the gold or one had been given a promotion from the Raja (in Bali never have there been Sultans except visiting). Although Sultan Agung gave kinatah emas (carved and then wrapped in gold) to everyone of the rank Bupati upwards to celebrate his victory over the kadipaten Pati (with the elephant-lion Gajah Singo symbol on the gandhik), Sultan Agung did not invent the laying of gold on kerises. I have seen Singosari keris with sinarasah (another technique of gold inlay in kerisology) and Singosari was the Java kingdom of 1222-1292, which was founded by Ken Arok who killed Mpu Gandring with the famously coursed unfinished keris. The use of sandpaper and battery acids in cleaning a keris can very easily change the pamor. Opening the pamor (silak waja) should be done once by the Mpu as part of the prayer of the making of the keris which begins and ends with offerings to the gods. The use of warangan is mistakenly called etching but it is not etching as there is no intent of taking away any part of the blade surface but only to contrast the earthly iron from the heavenly meteorite. The pamor on this blade seems now to be uler lulut (tame caterpillar) believed to bring prosperity and make people believe the speach of the owner. One traditional method of cleaning a keris is using a wooden trough soak the rusty keris in the water of several coconuts that have fermented for several days. To get this buy several coconuts that are still in their shells and thus still have the water in them. You should be able to hear the water when you shake the nut. Every nut would have between 1/4-1 cup of water in it. This is not coconut milk don't make a mistake and get coconut milk. Every few days, take the blade out and scrub with lime. Rinse the blade and soak again in the same solution do not change it rather let it ferment further. It can take weeks to clean a very rusty keris but patience is a key component in kerisology. In Bali lore the bull is assosciated with Andini and is the steed of Syiwa the king of the Gods. Tigers are assosciated with courage, military. In wayang stories Pasopati is one of the keris of the hero Arjuna who together with Krisna is the avatar of the God Wisnu. I hope this post is useful, Kiai Carita.

27th April 2005, 12:00 PM	#9
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Hi guys ive just got a new project blade to work on,its in bad shape with no sign of contrasting pamor.....but does show a layered pattern.Its seems unusualy thick and heavy to me.I got this advertised as "old dagger or bayonet" and cost me the price of a carton of cigarets.A prime candidate for some cleaning and re-etching...should be fun Attached Images

11th March 2005, 06:03 PM	#2
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	closer inspection reveals that the second animal is almost certainly a tiger and they both apear to be partly submerged in flowing water/river..the nodules near the aring seem to be rocks with water flowing around them.

12th March 2005, 11:22 AM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	What a shame that this blade is mounted in such a cheap tourist dress. It is balinese and once it certainly was dressed in a smashing scabbard with a fine ukiran. Unfortunately the mendak is also missing. In my opinion this is a very good blade. It should be cleaned properly with lime juice and re-etched with arsenic. The figures on the gandja were certainly gilded and the engravings once were gilded too. Maybe you should spend some money on this fellow to bring it back in the way it once appeared. Maybe Adni of the Malay Art Gallery can give you some advise. If you have the opportunity to restore it you will have a very fine balinese or lombok keris. I think this one is the effort worth.

12th March 2005, 11:35 PM	#4
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Thanks Henk thanks for the reply yeah its a great shame about the dress but for me the blade is the most important part...this is the second good quality bali blade that i have got in almost identical dress and like the last this is one for keeps and restoration. Do you have any ideahs on the significance of the animals ?mabe a makers marks or perhaps something to do with a hindu fable or something they are a lovely detail

12th March 2005, 11:54 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Nah , Made in Milwaukee . Seriously though capt. , thanks for showing me something I have never before seen in a Bali blade . The Tiger and the Bull are symbols of bravery , no ? Very interesting features .

13th March 2005, 09:42 AM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	To be honest I really don't know what the meaning is of those symbols on the keris. Ricks remark is a posibility. I've seen such a keris in good condition in a very serious collection. I was even allowed to keep it in my hands. The only thing I could do at that moment was to put up a face like this, and enjoying a marvelous keris. I always thought that such a keris was made for a wealthy person who could afford a keris with gold ornaments. The keris I mentioned had a dress of gold and ivory, that is pointing in such a direction. Symbols of power and strength, reflecting the position of the owner.