Shamshir with tugra or makers mark?

eftihis · 14th March 2008, 06:18 PM

Hi, this an ordinary shamshir, with this sign on the blade. It looks like an ottoman tugra, but i have never seen a tugra before stamped on a blade. Could it be a makers mark? Has anyone seen something similar?

ALEX · 14th March 2008, 07:00 PM

It does look like tughra (in my opinion it is of too cruel and rough quality to be a Sultan tughra). You're right, tughras usually stamped on silver fittings, not on blades. Blades can have chiselled or engraved tughras, but not stamped, so I think it is unusual to have stamped tughra on the blade. Of course, it can be a makers mark (It is propably Turkish or Egyptian). Another option is that someone just used tughra stamp/tool on the blade. I actually have a stamp of Sultan Mahmud II, and can stamp anything with it, not that I'd do such a thing:-)

eftihis · 16th March 2008, 04:15 PM

Hallo Alex,
It is not easy to stamp a blade unless is red hot, so i guess this stamp was made at the time of manufacture. If it was to heat the blade in a latter period only at a specific area, i think it it would lose its temper. This one looks ok and the steel makes a nice clear sound.

I have seen in the past on ebay a seller from Bulgaria selling a tugra stamp!

ALEX · 16th March 2008, 05:15 PM

Yes, it would be impossible to stamp heat treated blade without re-heating the metal. I think it's technically possible to apply / direct heat to a small local area of the blade and stamp it without affecting the structure of the blade as a whole. It'd be a delicate procedure (and the stamp tool itself had to be hardened !!!), so I agree - it had been likely done when the blade was made.

14th March 2008, 06:18 PM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Shamshir with tugra or makers mark? Hi, this an ordinary shamshir, with this sign on the blade. It looks like an ottoman tugra, but i have never seen a tugra before stamped on a blade. Could it be a makers mark? Has anyone seen something similar? Attached Images

14th March 2008, 07:00 PM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	It does look like tughra (in my opinion it is of too cruel and rough quality to be a Sultan tughra). You're right, tughras usually stamped on silver fittings, not on blades. Blades can have chiselled or engraved tughras, but not stamped, so I think it is unusual to have stamped tughra on the blade. Of course, it can be a makers mark (It is propably Turkish or Egyptian). Another option is that someone just used tughra stamp/tool on the blade. I actually have a stamp of Sultan Mahmud II, and can stamp anything with it, not that I'd do such a thing:-)

16th March 2008, 04:15 PM	#3
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Hallo Alex, It is not easy to stamp a blade unless is red hot, so i guess this stamp was made at the time of manufacture. If it was to heat the blade in a latter period only at a specific area, i think it it would lose its temper. This one looks ok and the steel makes a nice clear sound. I have seen in the past on ebay a seller from Bulgaria selling a tugra stamp!

16th March 2008, 05:15 PM	#4
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Yes, it would be impossible to stamp heat treated blade without re-heating the metal. I think it's technically possible to apply / direct heat to a small local area of the blade and stamp it without affecting the structure of the blade as a whole. It'd be a delicate procedure (and the stamp tool itself had to be hardened !!!), so I agree - it had been likely done when the blade was made.