Comments/Opinions on keris singa barong

BluErf · 9th July 2006, 01:57 AM

Anyone care to share comments/opinions on this singa barong please? Thanks!

Ok, the ukiran is not the original one, but I couldn't find a proper East Javanese ukiran that can fit the very long peksi (which is the longest in proportion to the blade amongst the kerises in my collection).

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

VANDOO · 9th July 2006, 05:11 AM

ESPECIALLY NICE WORK ON THE MALE TIGER THE BLADES WORKMANSHIP LOOKS TO BE VERY GOOD QUALITY. IS THE AREA BEHIND THE TIGERS BACK ONE OF THOSE FINGER PRINT HOLES OR JUST A AREA THAT IS CUT OUT? IS IT A RECENT OR A OLD BLADE AND FROM JAVA OR MADURA IN YOUR OPINION?
IS THERE A GOLD BALL IN THE TIGERS MOUTH, IF SO IS THAT CHINESE INFLUENCE?

CONGRADULATIONS I LIKE IT.

BluErf · 9th July 2006, 06:21 AM

Hi Vandoo,

The area behind the singa, I presume you are referring to the picetan, is carved out as part of the perabots of the keris. It's not a thumb depression akin to those on keris picit.

There is a metal ball in the mouth, and it looks like it was painted in gold colour. Brass/copper paint probably; don't think there's any actual gold in the paint.

I think it is an old blade (>100yrs old, late 19th century) from E. Java, but I'm not sure. That's why I'm putting it up for discussion.

There are signs of pitting on the sor-soran area, especially at the outer edge of the 1st luk. There are some very tiny perforations on the sraweyan area that allows light to pass through, probably due to acid cleaning over the years. The rest of the blade has better surface condition, with some nicks here and there, and a few pits.

The blade is not too heavy, which tilts the opinion towards an old blade (the result of more thorough forging). Madura muda blades, I noticed, tend to be quite heavy. However, if you notice, the singa itself has a rather smooth surface. The eyes and other features of the singa looks a bit worn smooth, so I don't know if the singa was polished recently.

Old? New? Modifed? I seek fellow forumnite's opinions please?

Thanks.

But regardless, I like the piece a fair bit (not to mention the pelet wood). Just want to find out more about the piece.

BluErf · 9th July 2006, 06:31 AM

As to whether the golden ball in the mouth is due to Chinese influence, I wouldn't rule that out, but a significant difference would be that the statues in China have manes, so are overtly lions, while in this keris' case, the creature has no mane.

The guardian lion statues in front of Chinese palaces and mansions often have a ball under their paw. Sometimes, they have a ball in their mouth, but this is more uncommon. I don't know the significance of the ball under the paw or the mouth.

Lei Shen Dao · 10th July 2006, 12:23 AM

Hi guys

I have been told that if this kind of keris is powerful (from the esoteric point of view

) you should put a little ball of gold in the mouth in order to keep the keris happy and quiet and ready to serve you better.

Just what I've heard.

Mudi · 10th July 2006, 02:24 PM

Maybe this keris is Bali? Ukiran is not right for Bali, but all else looks Bali to me, and 13 luk too! Barong singa is lion, not tiger. Chinese influence on keris Malay or keris di Majapahit has never been proven, but why not could it be? Chinese merchants were here by 800 AD, maybe earlier, and all over Malaysia, and Indonesia, it is clear their influence.

Yes, a 13 luk keris barong singa is a powerful keris, so be careful. Give it lots of oil and always keep the point up, when out of its gandar, never down, and don?t sniff it. If you can smell its oil, OK, but never hold a keris like this to your nose to enjoy its smell. I think too if you change the ukiran to ukiran di Bali, it will be a happier keris!

Bill M · 11th July 2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

The guardian lion statues in front of Chinese palaces and mansions often have a ball under their paw. Sometimes, they have a ball in their mouth, but this is more uncommon. I don't know the significance of the ball under the paw or the mouth.

The ball under the paw signifies that the guardian is male.

You will note that the other guardian has a baby under her paw and is female.

BluErf · 11th July 2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

The ball under the paw signifies that the guardian is male.

You will note that the other guardian has a baby under her paw and is female.

Thanks Bill, but is there significance as to why the male lion is holding on to the ball? Does the ball itself represent some object or idea?

9th July 2006, 01:57 AM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Comments/Opinions on keris singa barong Anyone care to share comments/opinions on this singa barong please? Thanks! Ok, the ukiran is not the original one, but I couldn't find a proper East Javanese ukiran that can fit the very long peksi (which is the longest in proportion to the blade amongst the kerises in my collection). http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Attached Images

9th July 2006, 05:11 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ESPECIALLY NICE WORK ON THE MALE TIGER THE BLADES WORKMANSHIP LOOKS TO BE VERY GOOD QUALITY. IS THE AREA BEHIND THE TIGERS BACK ONE OF THOSE FINGER PRINT HOLES OR JUST A AREA THAT IS CUT OUT? IS IT A RECENT OR A OLD BLADE AND FROM JAVA OR MADURA IN YOUR OPINION? IS THERE A GOLD BALL IN THE TIGERS MOUTH, IF SO IS THAT CHINESE INFLUENCE? CONGRADULATIONS I LIKE IT.

9th July 2006, 06:21 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Vandoo, The area behind the singa, I presume you are referring to the picetan, is carved out as part of the perabots of the keris. It's not a thumb depression akin to those on keris picit. There is a metal ball in the mouth, and it looks like it was painted in gold colour. Brass/copper paint probably; don't think there's any actual gold in the paint. I think it is an old blade (>100yrs old, late 19th century) from E. Java, but I'm not sure. That's why I'm putting it up for discussion. There are signs of pitting on the sor-soran area, especially at the outer edge of the 1st luk. There are some very tiny perforations on the sraweyan area that allows light to pass through, probably due to acid cleaning over the years. The rest of the blade has better surface condition, with some nicks here and there, and a few pits. The blade is not too heavy, which tilts the opinion towards an old blade (the result of more thorough forging). Madura muda blades, I noticed, tend to be quite heavy. However, if you notice, the singa itself has a rather smooth surface. The eyes and other features of the singa looks a bit worn smooth, so I don't know if the singa was polished recently. Old? New? Modifed? I seek fellow forumnite's opinions please? Thanks. But regardless, I like the piece a fair bit (not to mention the pelet wood). Just want to find out more about the piece.

9th July 2006, 06:31 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	As to whether the golden ball in the mouth is due to Chinese influence, I wouldn't rule that out, but a significant difference would be that the statues in China have manes, so are overtly lions, while in this keris' case, the creature has no mane. The guardian lion statues in front of Chinese palaces and mansions often have a ball under their paw. Sometimes, they have a ball in their mouth, but this is more uncommon. I don't know the significance of the ball under the paw or the mouth.

10th July 2006, 12:23 AM	#5
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Hi guys I have been told that if this kind of keris is powerful (from the esoteric point of view ) you should put a little ball of gold in the mouth in order to keep the keris happy and quiet and ready to serve you better. Just what I've heard.

10th July 2006, 02:24 PM	#6
Mudi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Makassar, (Ujung Pandang), Sulawesi, Indonesia Posts: 38	Maybe this keris is Bali? Ukiran is not right for Bali, but all else looks Bali to me, and 13 luk too! Barong singa is lion, not tiger. Chinese influence on keris Malay or keris di Majapahit has never been proven, but why not could it be? Chinese merchants were here by 800 AD, maybe earlier, and all over Malaysia, and Indonesia, it is clear their influence. Yes, a 13 luk keris barong singa is a powerful keris, so be careful. Give it lots of oil and always keep the point up, when out of its gandar, never down, and don?t sniff it. If you can smell its oil, OK, but never hold a keris like this to your nose to enjoy its smell. I think too if you change the ukiran to ukiran di Bali, it will be a happier keris!