Mace-handgonne

Spiridonov · 26th March 2012, 07:47 PM

Bronze mace-handgonne was found in Ukraine in Винницкая область. This mace have iron partition which split mace-head on barrel and socket for fixing on a pole

Matchlock · 26th March 2012, 08:24 PM

That's an unbelievable find indeed!

Where is this item now, and are there better photos?

Best,
Michael

fernando · 26th March 2012, 09:36 PM

Fascinating specimen indeed !

Matchlock · 26th March 2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

This mace have iron partition which split mace-head on barrel

Hi Alexender,

I do not quite understand what you mean by 'iron partition' - I cannot detect any iron parts and I believe that the item is all cast-bronze.

m

Matchlock · 26th March 2012, 10:08 PM

If I were to assign a date to this, I would - based on the period artwork attached by Alexender - say 'around 1470', give or take a decade or two.

m

Spiridonov · 26th March 2012, 10:18 PM

We need to look at maces typology... I think, that shape of mace head would help us to determine the correct date.

Matchlock · 26th March 2012, 11:42 PM

I'm afraid all it would provide would be another terminus post quem.

As studies in combination weapons have proved - and this was doubtlessly a combined weapon - , they seem to reflect the earliest possible shapes of the basic (!) weapon.

This means that when you investigate a combined mace and wheellock gun, the mace head - as a relic of the basic weapon - will reflect the latest development of maces while the wheellock will closely mirror the taste of the period of actual manufacture.

I will do research into the shape of the flanges on the mace head, as I have been planning on getting back to this topic soon anyway, with good basic material of course.

What I can state with authority today is the fact that the pronounced sectioning of this barrel points toward the end of the 15th century. No such sectioning by moldings or other stages can be found on pre-1460 barrels.

For today, I would like to link you with

http://otlichnik.tripod.com/medmace3.html

The attached 14th-15th c. samples, which come pretty close to our combination weaon in discussion, are from this site.

On the other hand - and this I hope makes the dichotomy understood that I have been talking about - , they are very close to the sample attached, ca. 1500!

And: in order to make the similarity of mace heads thru the millenniums perfectly clear, please see here for a nearly identical Byzantine sample, 12th-15th c. (attachments at bottom):

http://www.google.de/imgres?q=mace+h...:0&tx=30&ty=58

Best,
Michael

G. McCormack · 27th March 2012, 12:21 AM

This is awesome! But how would you use it in battle? Long fuse and just keep pointing at the enemy until it went?

26th March 2012, 07:47 PM	#1
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	Mace-handgonne Bronze mace-handgonne was found in Ukraine in Винницкая область. This mace have iron partition which split mace-head on barrel and socket for fixing on a pole Attached Images

26th March 2012, 08:24 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	That's an unbelievable find indeed! Where is this item now, and are there better photos? Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 26th March 2012 at 08:47 PM.

26th March 2012, 10:08 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	If I were to assign a date to this, I would - based on the period artwork attached by Alexender - say 'around 1470', give or take a decade or two. m Last edited by Matchlock; 26th March 2012 at 11:32 PM.

26th March 2012, 11:42 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I'm afraid all it would provide would be another terminus post quem. As studies in combination weapons have proved - and this was doubtlessly a combined weapon - , they seem to reflect the earliest possible shapes of the basic (!) weapon. This means that when you investigate a combined mace and wheellock gun, the mace head - as a relic of the basic weapon - will reflect the latest development of maces while the wheellock will closely mirror the taste of the period of actual manufacture. I will do research into the shape of the flanges on the mace head, as I have been planning on getting back to this topic soon anyway, with good basic material of course. What I can state with authority today is the fact that the *pronounced sectioning* of this barrel points toward the end of the 15th century. No such sectioning by moldings or other stages can be found on pre-1460 barrels. For today, I would like to link you with http://otlichnik.tripod.com/medmace3.html The attached 14th-15th c. samples, which come pretty close to our combination weaon in discussion, are from this site. On the other hand - and this I hope makes the dichotomy understood that I have been talking about - , they are very close to the sample attached, ca. 1500! And: in order to make the similarity of mace heads thru the millenniums perfectly clear, please see here for a nearly identical Byzantine sample, 12th-15th c. (attachments at bottom): http://www.google.de/imgres?q=mace+h...:0&tx=30&ty=58 Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 27th March 2012 at 12:27 AM.

26th March 2012, 09:36 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Fascinating specimen indeed !

26th March 2012, 10:18 PM	#6
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	We need to look at maces typology... I think, that shape of mace head would help us to determine the correct date.

27th March 2012, 12:21 AM	#8
G. McCormack Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 131	This is awesome! But how would you use it in battle? Long fuse and just keep pointing at the enemy until it went?