What are these ?

fenlander · 8th October 2006, 06:45 PM

I am an English man presently livng in Taiwan near China. A Chinese friend of mine gave me these knives or swords, they were picked up in Xin Jiang western China. This provence both borders India and Tibet and is predominantly Islamic. They seem fairly old and was told they were old, but know nothing more about them that that. Anyone any ideas ? Or good places to look ? Also What is a good way to remove rust and tidy them up ? Any info on their uses or history would be appreciated. I can take more pictures if anyone is interested.

Ian · 8th October 2006, 08:32 PM

The top three are recently made knives from the Philippines or perhaps N. Borneo (late 20th C.).

In the next group of three, the middle one could be another recently made Philippine knife, but the top and bottom ones need better pictures. The bottom one might be a Vietnamese version of a dha.

In the last group of two, the top one is a recently made Philippine knife and the bottom one looks like an old Chinese knife.

Some of the Philippine knives may have been rehilted locally.

Ian.

fenlander · 9th October 2006, 06:05 AM

Thanks Ian much appreciated and interesting as he says he got them all in China, but know I doubt it and I think he meant that he got only the Chinese sword in China. I will take some better pictures of the small knives for you. I will also take some more of the Chinese knife.

fenlander · 9th October 2006, 03:33 PM

More detailed pics of the Chinese sword that is really weird looking. Cuts into wood suprisingly well though I tried it on a broom handle

Also more detailed look (three pics each for the small two knives) of the first two small knives, and then the next post is the third one of the small knives.

fenlander · 9th October 2006, 03:39 PM

The final knife of the three small knives.

Ian · 9th October 2006, 05:24 PM

This is the most interesting knife/small sword in your collection for me. It resembles a slim-bladed dha, and the rope binding is reminiscent of the baldrics attached to dha from various areas of mainland SE Asia. The slim, curved scabbard is not like any Thai, Burmese, Lao or Cambodian dha scabbards that I am familiar with. It does have a shape similar to Vietnamese sabers of the 19th C., which is one reason why I favor a Vietnamese origin for this one. Artzi Yarom has pictures on his site of Vietnamese sabers and scabbards which illustrate the shape: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1216 and http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1185

Another reason is the hilt. The long iron ferrule with a deep V at the end probably held an ivory or wood extension at the end of the handle. A similar handle is seen on a very beautiful sword on Scott Ridell's web site here: http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/art...page=vietsword

The square/rectangular iron guard again argues for a Chinese influence IMO, but that is consistent with a Vietnamese sword because China controlled much of what is Vietnam today for many centuries.

If you are ever interested in parting with this knife let me know. Also that Chinese puppy.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenlander

The final knife of the three small knives.

Ian · 9th October 2006, 05:00 PM

Hi fenlander:

Well, the additional pictures show more of these knives and help a little. The Chinese knife appears to have some age, but I have not seen a similar knife before and really can't comment. You may have a nice old antique bronze knife -- that would be a pretty unusual find these days. Philip Thom or Scott Ridell could help you best -- drop them a PM.

The second one with the stag horn end of the handle is interesting. The square or rectangular guard and long iron ferrule suggest a Chinese influence to me. Perhaps southern China/Vietnam because there are various stag species in mainland Indochina and we have occasionally seen similar stag on pieces from Cambodia and Thailand. The V-shaped end of the ferrule might indicate a Vietnamese origin (see post below).

There is an Ayutthaya dha collected in Malaysia with an unusual stag handle that is being discussed in another thread currently. This knife might also be Thai, Lao or even Cambodian.

The third knife here obviously has some "after market" features in terms of the carving to the end of the hilt. Hard to give this one a clear provenance. The rest of the hilt still looks Philippine to me. There has been trade in edged weapons between Taiwan and the Philippines for a long time (not surprising given their close proximity). Taiwan tribal knives show up in Manila from time to time.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenlander

More detailed pics of the Chinese sword that is really weird looking. Cuts into wood suprisingly well though I tried it on a broom handle

Also more detailed look (three pics each for the small two knives) of the first two small knives, and then the next post is the third one of the small knives.

spiral · 9th October 2006, 05:06 PM

The antler looks like its probably Barking deer antler. They were 100+ years ago commonly used on karda knives in Nepal.

Seen them on Naga necklaces as well.

I think the deer in its various varieties lives throughout south east asia though.

Spiral

8th October 2006, 06:45 PM	#1
fenlander Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 62	What are these ? I am an English man presently livng in Taiwan near China. A Chinese friend of mine gave me these knives or swords, they were picked up in Xin Jiang western China. This provence both borders India and Tibet and is predominantly Islamic. They seem fairly old and was told they were old, but know nothing more about them that that. Anyone any ideas ? Or good places to look ? Also What is a good way to remove rust and tidy them up ? Any info on their uses or history would be appreciated. I can take more pictures if anyone is interested. Attached Images

9th October 2006, 06:05 AM	#3
fenlander Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 62	thanks Thanks Ian much appreciated and interesting as he says he got them all in China, but know I doubt it and I think he meant that he got only the Chinese sword in China. I will take some better pictures of the small knives for you. I will also take some more of the Chinese knife.

9th October 2006, 03:33 PM	#4
fenlander Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 62	Better pics and in more detail of those suggested More detailed pics of the Chinese sword that is really weird looking. Cuts into wood suprisingly well though I tried it on a broom handle Also more detailed look (three pics each for the small two knives) of the first two small knives, and then the next post is the third one of the small knives. Attached Images Last edited by fenlander; 9th October 2006 at 03:36 PM. Reason: spelling mistake

9th October 2006, 03:39 PM	#5
fenlander Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 62	Last of the small knife pics The final knife of the three small knives. Attached Images

8th October 2006, 08:32 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,165	The top three are recently made knives from the Philippines or perhaps N. Borneo (late 20th C.). In the next group of three, the middle one could be another recently made Philippine knife, but the top and bottom ones need better pictures. The bottom one might be a Vietnamese version of a dha. In the last group of two, the top one is a recently made Philippine knife and the bottom one looks like an old Chinese knife. Some of the Philippine knives may have been rehilted locally. Ian.

9th October 2006, 05:06 PM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	The antler looks like its probably Barking deer antler. They were 100+ years ago commonly used on karda knives in Nepal. Seen them on Naga necklaces as well. I think the deer in its various varieties lives throughout south east asia though. Spiral