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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France
Posts: 45
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#2 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
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Hi Emannuel,
Difficult to precise a date, as mottos are sometimes in fashion for long periods. PUGNO PRO PATRIA, as know, is latin for (I) FIGHT FOR (THE) MOTHERLAND. It started being inscribed in Portugal in the second half XVII century, assumedly an allegory to the restoration of Portuguese independence. As traditionaly several or most pata blades were of Portuguese origin, we can conclude this one is Portuguese and most probably from such late XVII or, in alternative, from the XVIII century. Also not a bad idea to try and find further little marks in the end or beginning of the text, being symbols of the time period or from the blade smith. You should however consider that i am no expert; all my coments are just a guess made by my limited knowledge. Other more qualified members will know better. Fernando |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,653
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Hi Emannuel,
looks to be an very good 'fighting' Pata.....many of the more elaborate ones tend to be ceremonial. My only concern is the wooden (?) handle seems to be in excellent condition....but, of course, it could have been replaced. Could you take some pictures of the blade 'fixing' ...including a view from the inside of the 'gauntlet', where the blade is attached. Thank you Regards David |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France
Posts: 45
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#5 | |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,893
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![]() Quote:
You are far too humble my friend! Your expertise shows through in your gently placed comments, and I think your assessment is exactly right. If I understand correctly, the very term 'firangi/phirangi' is more literally derived from the meaning 'Portuguese' as described in India. I am not with notes or references at the moment, but as I recall the Mahrattas, with whom these patas are believed to have originated, maintained key trade activity with the Portuguese on western coasts of India. The use of the pata seems to be essentially a slashing action weapon, which also seems to have evolved out of the transverse grip katar. While these are typically considered armour piercing 'punch' daggers, they are actually from the slashing type forms (which are thrust also) used by Mahrattas. These pata are were used (I believe some still are) in martial arts oriented performances in places in India, used in pairs. I am inclined to believe that these would not be mounted with valued heirloom blades though. I would presume the simpler, undecorated forms to be combat weapons perhaps, and likely refurbished blades which remained in use for many generations,, where valued blades, such as this were handed down. All best regards, Jim |
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#6 | ||
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
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Hi Jim,
Some touch ups ? Quote:
This Frank attribution to western christians started in the Carlos Magno period; before that, the Arabs used to indistinctily call all christians, during the first centuries of Islam culture, Rūmi or Rumes, meanning Romans. Quote:
Fernando |
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#7 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,893
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Excellent and most helpful information Fernando! I wasnt sure on the firangi term, but certainly makes sense...didnt know about the Arab term for Christians either. Interesting that the Christians used the term Moors rather comprehensively for Muslims, after the term Saracens earlier, while the Arabs used the Rumes term.
Following the development of terminology is fascinating in our studies, and really helps as we examine contemporary narratives. Thanks very much, All the best, Jim |
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#8 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PR, USA
Posts: 679
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firangi?
Didn't those guys appear on STTNG..? ![]() Seriously, The term Moor basically means "dark", on account of the dark djilabas they chose to wear. Moro, Marron, Marroon, Mauritania. Same word root. The arabs mostly called us "dhimmi", or "guilty". They mostly used the term Rumi on Byzantines and Greeks, if I recall correctly. Best M Quote:
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